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I am of the opinion that lifting weights is just damage and not really useful in comparison to many other activities. I was a college football player and could

I am of the opinion that lifting weights is just damage and not really useful in comparison to many other activities. I was a college football player and could put 375lb above my head, squat over 500lb and bench press 225lb over 30 times. That said. That is not health, but damage. Unless you can move your own body weight efficiently what is the point in lifting metal. Try Tai Chi or some form of movement that works on integrating the control of the entire body. Almost all weightlifting is isolating muscles and detaching the control of the muscles from each other. Muscles are also one of the weakest parts of the body structurally so strengthening them does little for the overall strength of the body, which is only what most weight lifting succeeds in doing . There are better ways to strengthen the joints and bones and tendons and ligaments.

newt0311 18y ago
Half right, half wrong. Lifting weights in isolation is useful but not particularly. However lifting weights with some exercise for careful movement control like Tai Chi is the best combo. Tai Chi just by itself is useful but without some alternate workouts, its doesn't help cardiovascular stamina and normally low load muscles like the biceps. However, given a choice between just Tai Chi and just weight lifting, I would choose Tai Chi any day. The weakest part of the body is bullshit. The strongest parts are the bones but that because they are structural elements and nothing else. The most you can do with bones is stand upright (and even that only after very careful balancing). If you want to actually do anything, you need muscles. Furthermore, bones can not apply any force without muscles. Even in soft martial arts like Tai Chi which use the weight of the entire body, muscles are needed for control. Furthermore, even in Tai Chi, strong laterals and abs are an absolute must because all movement stems from the hips and is supported by the thighs. Without these two, you are screwed. Lastly, while Tai Chi works on integrating the control of the entire body, it also tries to make the user aware of all the individual muscles in their body.
- whalliburton 18y ago
  Out of all the elements I mentioned, muscles are the weakest, which you don't counter except to acknowledge. So not a bullshit thought. You only need the muscles to position the body. Structure and grounding toward the earth is the source of strength, not actual muscle exertion. If you can properly use your body you will not need the muscles for more than position, not resistance. Real speed and strength comes from complete relaxation and not tension, which weight lifting only promotes. The problem, in my eyes, of current weightlifters, is that they believe that they are healthy because they can lift certain weights under certain conditions. Move to a different context and that "strength" does no good and generally is a detriment both to coordination and to speed. Let me add that this is from a martial artist perspective. Of course muscles are needed to do work like climb a mountain or such, but your are better at growth trying to climb that mountain than some form of gym weightlifting activity.
  - randallsquared 18y ago
    "I was a college football player and could put 375lb above my head, squat over 500lb and bench press 225lb over 30 times." and then "Real speed and strength comes from complete relaxation and not tension, which weight lifting only promotes." May we assume, then, that now that you don't lift weights, you can squat and bench more? No? Maybe it isn't a good idea to use "strength" to mean something other than what everyone else means by it.
    - whalliburton 18y ago
      I cannot squat nearly as much nor bench nearly as much, but if that is you metric of health I will point you to several power lifters that died an early death. The strength I am referring is the strength of the "climb a mountain" type or the "move from point A to point B in the most economical way" kind or the "take on an adversary much stronger than myself" kind. On the speed side, for example, weightlifting, as it is popularly promoted, slows down the body. The biceps and the triceps work against each other and unless you can properly relax the countering muscle your intentions will be dampened. Weightlifting generally promotes tension in all muscles, thus a general slowing down.
      - mrtron 18y ago
        Those power lifters probably did a lot of anabolic steroids.
      - trapper 18y ago
        I am sure all the top sprinters in the world would agree. They never do weights, or use drugs to make them stronger. Olympic weightlifters aren't faster over a short distance than most sprinters, nor are bobsledders. Most bobsledders are weak and slow, barely able to lift .... if you go to pubmed, you won't find research showing an increase in speed entirely due to weightlifting routines. /end sarcasm.
      - randallsquared 18y ago
        "if that is you metric of health" You were previously talking about "strength" rather than "health". At least, you used the word "strength," so I assumed that was what you meant. If you meant to be talking about general health, then that's very different, and I don't have much to say on it. :)
maur33n 18y ago
Use kettlebells. Most of the mixed martial arts use kettlebell lifting because you get strength plus explosive strength plus control/movement. Bias against weight-lifting is unfounded. Most other options do not provide the bone-strengthening that weight lifting does. In support of your point, however, there is also the joint stress of weights. Kettlebell lifting addresses this via static lifts and swings that strengthen the joints. You can also get a decent cardio benefit from fast-paced kettlebell swing movements.
Alex3917 18y ago
"There are better ways to strengthen the joints and bones and tendons and ligaments." First, lifting weights does strengthen bones via Wolff's Law. Second, lifting also strengthens tendons and ligaments, but probably not the kind of lifting you did for football. To strengthen these, you'd do something like 4 x 100 squats with 115lbs, ass to ankles.
- whalliburton 18y ago
  But there are still "better ways". I was not discounting the ability of weightlifting to strengthen bones, tendons, and ligaments, but to point out that other ways may be more beneficial and healthier and have less negative effects. Weightlifting of almost all forms generally promotes overall tension in the body, which, in my opinion, is not a good thing.
  - jksmith 18y ago
    Sorry, I'm calling bs on your lifts. Additionally, you don't know what you're talking about. The sports athlete lifts (correctly) to enhance his/her body's ability to generate force for a particular sport, that's all. If the athlete does not lift correctly, that's not the barbell's fault. The Oly lifter measurably generates more force than athletes in any other sport. Ex. When Reza Zadeh weighed 300, at 6 ft tall he could high jump a 6 ft bar. (He's about 370 now). Even well into my 30's, at near 300 I could standing long jump over 10 feet. I throw stuff though, I'm not an oly lifter. If you're trying to throw a baseball, lifting might slow you down, but you won't be able to throw a 2k disc very far, and pitchers aren't very good batters either. The top discus throwers in the world all have huge lifts, and we all know what muscles do for batting. But all this is off-point anyway. The thread starter just wants peeps to beta for him. If you don't like to lift, or you don't like to keep a journal while lifting, don't beta test.
jrockway 18y ago
I am of the opinion that lifting weights is just damage Maybe to some extent. Adding muscle mass to your body increases your metabolism, which is a good thing.

newt0311 18y ago

Half right, half wrong. Lifting weights in isolation is useful but not particularly. However lifting weights with some exercise for careful movement control like Tai Chi is the best combo. Tai Chi just by itself is useful but without some alternate workouts, its doesn't help cardiovascular stamina and normally low load muscles like the biceps. However, given a choice between just Tai Chi and just weight lifting, I would choose Tai Chi any day. The weakest part of the body is bullshit. The strongest parts are the bones but that because they are structural elements and nothing else. The most you can do with bones is stand upright (and even that only after very careful balancing). If you want to actually do anything, you need muscles. Furthermore, bones can not apply any force without muscles. Even in soft martial arts like Tai Chi which use the weight of the entire body, muscles are needed for control. Furthermore, even in Tai Chi, strong laterals and abs are an absolute must because all movement stems from the hips and is supported by the thighs. Without these two, you are screwed. Lastly, while Tai Chi works on integrating the control of the entire body, it also tries to make the user aware of all the individual muscles in their body.

whalliburton 18y ago
Out of all the elements I mentioned, muscles are the weakest, which you don't counter except to acknowledge. So not a bullshit thought. You only need the muscles to position the body. Structure and grounding toward the earth is the source of strength, not actual muscle exertion. If you can properly use your body you will not need the muscles for more than position, not resistance. Real speed and strength comes from complete relaxation and not tension, which weight lifting only promotes. The problem, in my eyes, of current weightlifters, is that they believe that they are healthy because they can lift certain weights under certain conditions. Move to a different context and that "strength" does no good and generally is a detriment both to coordination and to speed. Let me add that this is from a martial artist perspective. Of course muscles are needed to do work like climb a mountain or such, but your are better at growth trying to climb that mountain than some form of gym weightlifting activity.
- randallsquared 18y ago
  "I was a college football player and could put 375lb above my head, squat over 500lb and bench press 225lb over 30 times." and then "Real speed and strength comes from complete relaxation and not tension, which weight lifting only promotes." May we assume, then, that now that you don't lift weights, you can squat and bench more? No? Maybe it isn't a good idea to use "strength" to mean something other than what everyone else means by it.
  - whalliburton 18y ago
    I cannot squat nearly as much nor bench nearly as much, but if that is you metric of health I will point you to several power lifters that died an early death. The strength I am referring is the strength of the "climb a mountain" type or the "move from point A to point B in the most economical way" kind or the "take on an adversary much stronger than myself" kind. On the speed side, for example, weightlifting, as it is popularly promoted, slows down the body. The biceps and the triceps work against each other and unless you can properly relax the countering muscle your intentions will be dampened. Weightlifting generally promotes tension in all muscles, thus a general slowing down.
    - mrtron 18y ago
      Those power lifters probably did a lot of anabolic steroids.
    - trapper 18y ago
      I am sure all the top sprinters in the world would agree. They never do weights, or use drugs to make them stronger. Olympic weightlifters aren't faster over a short distance than most sprinters, nor are bobsledders. Most bobsledders are weak and slow, barely able to lift .... if you go to pubmed, you won't find research showing an increase in speed entirely due to weightlifting routines. /end sarcasm.
    - randallsquared 18y ago
      "if that is you metric of health" You were previously talking about "strength" rather than "health". At least, you used the word "strength," so I assumed that was what you meant. If you meant to be talking about general health, then that's very different, and I don't have much to say on it. :)

maur33n 18y ago

Use kettlebells. Most of the mixed martial arts use kettlebell lifting because you get strength plus explosive strength plus control/movement. Bias against weight-lifting is unfounded. Most other options do not provide the bone-strengthening that weight lifting does. In support of your point, however, there is also the joint stress of weights. Kettlebell lifting addresses this via static lifts and swings that strengthen the joints. You can also get a decent cardio benefit from fast-paced kettlebell swing movements.

Alex3917 18y ago

"There are better ways to strengthen the joints and bones and tendons and ligaments." First, lifting weights does strengthen bones via Wolff's Law. Second, lifting also strengthens tendons and ligaments, but probably not the kind of lifting you did for football. To strengthen these, you'd do something like 4 x 100 squats with 115lbs, ass to ankles.

whalliburton 18y ago
But there are still "better ways". I was not discounting the ability of weightlifting to strengthen bones, tendons, and ligaments, but to point out that other ways may be more beneficial and healthier and have less negative effects. Weightlifting of almost all forms generally promotes overall tension in the body, which, in my opinion, is not a good thing.
- jksmith 18y ago
  Sorry, I'm calling bs on your lifts. Additionally, you don't know what you're talking about. The sports athlete lifts (correctly) to enhance his/her body's ability to generate force for a particular sport, that's all. If the athlete does not lift correctly, that's not the barbell's fault. The Oly lifter measurably generates more force than athletes in any other sport. Ex. When Reza Zadeh weighed 300, at 6 ft tall he could high jump a 6 ft bar. (He's about 370 now). Even well into my 30's, at near 300 I could standing long jump over 10 feet. I throw stuff though, I'm not an oly lifter. If you're trying to throw a baseball, lifting might slow you down, but you won't be able to throw a 2k disc very far, and pitchers aren't very good batters either. The top discus throwers in the world all have huge lifts, and we all know what muscles do for batting. But all this is off-point anyway. The thread starter just wants peeps to beta for him. If you don't like to lift, or you don't like to keep a journal while lifting, don't beta test.

jrockway 18y ago

I am of the opinion that lifting weights is just damage Maybe to some extent. Adding muscle mass to your body increases your metabolism, which is a good thing.