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The 30 micrograms of ribonucleic acid in an mRNA vaccine dose get folded into protein and make their way into the lymph nodes in your armpit. They do not “satur

The 30 micrograms of ribonucleic acid in an mRNA vaccine dose get folded into protein and make their way into the lymph nodes in your armpit. They do not “saturate the body”. Joe Rogan interviews are not a reliable source of medical information. Rogan is a COVID conspiracy theorist of the “just asking questions” variety. For anyone unconvinced about this, and values diversity of opinions in their media diet, the recent episode of Decoding the Gurus is worth a listen. https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/joe-rogan-just-an-average-joe https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/joe-rogan-ju...

TrispusAttucks 5y ago
Very defensive response. I am not making any claims that are unsupported by the CDC's own data. Just because a response is rare doesn't make it any less true. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...
- kuhewa 5y ago
  The fact the CDC recognizes myocarditis results from infection of vaccination does not support your claim that it is a direct result of "spike protein saturating the body". It is an immune response, not a direct effect of the protein. If it was a response to the protein, it wouldn't occur primarily after the second dose of Moderna, it would occur with equal likelihood after both first and second doses.
  - TrispusAttucks 5y ago
    I don't understand what you're defending against. The science proves you wrong. The inflammatory response is primarily triggered by the [1] spike protein. "We observed that spike (S) protein potently induces inflammatory cytokines and chemokines including IL-6, IL-1β, TNFα, CXCL1, CXCL2, and CCL2" I'm curious to see the fuller data set on adolescent males since it does seem initially that moderna may be more likely to trigger this rare myocardial response due to its much higher potency. The S1 and S2 components of the spike protein linger in the body for up to 12 months. So it would seem that the second dose would be harsher since there is already a reserve of S in the body. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7987013/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7987013/
    - kuhewa 5y ago
      Well, yes, the spike protein induces an immune response. That's the entire purpose of using it as an antigen in a vaccine. If you don't see the daylight between that and your original claim that 'saturating the body with spike protein' which gets uptaken in tissue in the heart as metabolic substrate which then results in myocarditis, I don't know what to say.
      - 1123581321 5y ago
        You misquoted him twice; he said "The spike protein RNA vaccine saturates the body" and clarified he was referring to the response mechanism of the vaccine by saying "the vaccine saturates", which you referred to in the first sentence of the comment I'm replying to. It seems like you two are discussing the same thing, as a third party.
        kuhewa 5y ago
        I don't think I'm misrepresenting them even if I paraphrased. The vaccine doesn't saturate the body, and there's no evidence the heart is subject to these side effects due to lipid vesicles being uptaken from circulation because the heart uses them as substrate. Then to not leave any doubt, they cite McCullough on the topic who is way off the rails beyond available evidence.
        1123581321 5y ago
        Your second sentence seems like the most promising path to helpful discussion. It sounds like you're saying the Khan preprint is wrong because of an association with McCullough, but I don't know the name and it doesn't appear in the study (I haven't listened to the podcast.) I'm sure there's more to what you mean by disagreeing with the mechanism the other user proposed.
        kuhewa 5y ago
        Nothing appears to be amiss with the Khan preprint, it just doesn't support claims being made.
mlyle 5y ago
> The 30 micrograms of ribonucleic acid in an mRNA vaccine dose get folded into protein and make their way into the lymph nodes in your armpit. They do not “saturate the body”. I am pro-vaccine, but this isn't really true. Note that we have animal studies that used luciferase mRNA to see where mRNA medications are transported and translated. There's some systemic transport no matter what, even with IM administration. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ > Intravenous and intraperitoneal and to a lesser extent intramuscular and intratracheal deliveries led to trafficking of mRNA-LNPs systemically resulting in active translation of the mRNA in the liver for 1–4 days. https://i.imgur.com/YSCFUQS.png https://i.imgur.com/YSCFUQS.png Yes, the muscle in your arm does a lot of the production of the spike protein, and a lot of that spike protein is captured by the lymph nodes in your armpit. But decent chunk of the mRNA goes to your liver, too, and a big amount of spike protein circulates systemically no matter where it's produced.

TrispusAttucks 5y ago

Very defensive response. I am not making any claims that are unsupported by the CDC's own data. Just because a response is rare doesn't make it any less true. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...

kuhewa 5y ago
The fact the CDC recognizes myocarditis results from infection of vaccination does not support your claim that it is a direct result of "spike protein saturating the body". It is an immune response, not a direct effect of the protein. If it was a response to the protein, it wouldn't occur primarily after the second dose of Moderna, it would occur with equal likelihood after both first and second doses.
- TrispusAttucks 5y ago
  I don't understand what you're defending against. The science proves you wrong. The inflammatory response is primarily triggered by the [1] spike protein. "We observed that spike (S) protein potently induces inflammatory cytokines and chemokines including IL-6, IL-1β, TNFα, CXCL1, CXCL2, and CCL2" I'm curious to see the fuller data set on adolescent males since it does seem initially that moderna may be more likely to trigger this rare myocardial response due to its much higher potency. The S1 and S2 components of the spike protein linger in the body for up to 12 months. So it would seem that the second dose would be harsher since there is already a reserve of S in the body. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7987013/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7987013/
  - kuhewa 5y ago
    Well, yes, the spike protein induces an immune response. That's the entire purpose of using it as an antigen in a vaccine. If you don't see the daylight between that and your original claim that 'saturating the body with spike protein' which gets uptaken in tissue in the heart as metabolic substrate which then results in myocarditis, I don't know what to say.
    - 1123581321 5y ago
      You misquoted him twice; he said "The spike protein RNA vaccine saturates the body" and clarified he was referring to the response mechanism of the vaccine by saying "the vaccine saturates", which you referred to in the first sentence of the comment I'm replying to. It seems like you two are discussing the same thing, as a third party.
      - kuhewa 5y ago
        I don't think I'm misrepresenting them even if I paraphrased. The vaccine doesn't saturate the body, and there's no evidence the heart is subject to these side effects due to lipid vesicles being uptaken from circulation because the heart uses them as substrate. Then to not leave any doubt, they cite McCullough on the topic who is way off the rails beyond available evidence.
        1123581321 5y ago
        Your second sentence seems like the most promising path to helpful discussion. It sounds like you're saying the Khan preprint is wrong because of an association with McCullough, but I don't know the name and it doesn't appear in the study (I haven't listened to the podcast.) I'm sure there's more to what you mean by disagreeing with the mechanism the other user proposed.
        kuhewa 5y ago
        Nothing appears to be amiss with the Khan preprint, it just doesn't support claims being made.

mlyle 5y ago

> The 30 micrograms of ribonucleic acid in an mRNA vaccine dose get folded into protein and make their way into the lymph nodes in your armpit. They do not “saturate the body”. I am pro-vaccine, but this isn't really true. Note that we have animal studies that used luciferase mRNA to see where mRNA medications are transported and translated. There's some systemic transport no matter what, even with IM administration. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ > Intravenous and intraperitoneal and to a lesser extent intramuscular and intratracheal deliveries led to trafficking of mRNA-LNPs systemically resulting in active translation of the mRNA in the liver for 1–4 days. https://i.imgur.com/YSCFUQS.png https://i.imgur.com/YSCFUQS.png Yes, the muscle in your arm does a lot of the production of the spike protein, and a lot of that spike protein is captured by the lymph nodes in your armpit. But decent chunk of the mRNA goes to your liver, too, and a big amount of spike protein circulates systemically no matter where it's produced.