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Wait, what's the point of a secret patent though? Like I get the point of keeping military innovations secret, but patents are supposed to be a trade where the

Wait, what's the point of a secret patent though? Like I get the point of keeping military innovations secret, but patents are supposed to be a trade where the government offers a limited-time monopoly on a technology, in exchange for making the secret sauce of said technology public. If I re-invent/re-discover the tech behind a secret patent, can I be sued for patent infringement, despite the patent being non-public? What's the point of granting patents for this?

hn8788 5y ago
I forget where I read it, but my understanding is that the secret patent would become public if you try to publicly patent it. I don't know if there would be any compensation for you, but I don't think you'd have to deal with patent infringement.
- dnautics 5y ago
  Iirc this happened with encryption schemes. RSA maybe?
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Yeah, you just have to deal with sunk costs and an IP rugpull. Great. I bet they don't even refund the patent fees.
- bdowling 5y ago
  It's illegal for a US inventor to file a patent application in a foreign country without either (a) obtaining a foreign filing license first, or (b) applying for a US patent and waiting at least 6 months. [0] The idea there is to give the Patent Office a chance to review the invention for national security. [0] https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s140.html https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s140.html
sandworm101 5y ago
They aren't totally secret. Other companies in the field know about and can see them. The patents are just not made as public as normal patents. So friendly companies, those with the appropriate security clearances, still benefit from the shared knowledge. If, sitting in your garage/basement, you invent a tech covered by a secret patent then you will be getting a job offer. If you market that tech then you will probably be arrested for dealing in weapons or other heavily-controlled material. Building missile guidance systems or uranium enrichment centrifuges is not something done by home tinkerers.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"If, sitting in your garage/basement, you invent a tech covered by a secret patent then you will be getting a job offer." Or being told to shut up and get lost. And can't sue back because the lawsuit will be dismissed on the basis of national security.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Or knocks on the door from a couple of agents informing you that you are doing something you should not be doing as a private individual. Surely, if you are, you must be a subversive which is the total point of the conversation you'd be having.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      >"Surely, if you are, you must be a subversive" You sound like KGB. Person can invent tech for what them thinks is a totally peaceful purpose and have no idea that it has high military value in some specific field. Fucking witch hunt attitude.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    I mean, if you're developing a missile guidance system or something that you do not intend to be used by your country's military, then I'd hope you have a very good explanation of who you do intend to use said technology. And if not, "shut up and get lost" seems like a pretty mild reaction...
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      Are people not remembering the issues with PGP?
      - seoaeu 5y ago
        The issue with PGP was that encrypted communications were classified as a munition, not the concept of export controls. There is no civilian use for an air-to-air missile guidance system. There are plenty of private individuals with legitimate reasons to use encryption
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lumost 5y ago
If a Lockheed engineer spontaneously discovers a defense technology, Lockheed can patent the tech and try to sell it independently or license the patent to another firm. Some government contracts will assign such spontaneous discoveries to the government with some incentive on the contract for patents produced. Without the patent system, some discoveries would simply be forgotten about or remain in one engineers head - unfortunately the patent world has become fairly bloated with minimally inventive discoveries being written up by lawyers.

hn8788 5y ago

I forget where I read it, but my understanding is that the secret patent would become public if you try to publicly patent it. I don't know if there would be any compensation for you, but I don't think you'd have to deal with patent infringement.

dnautics 5y ago
Iirc this happened with encryption schemes. RSA maybe?
jjoonathan 5y ago
Yeah, you just have to deal with sunk costs and an IP rugpull. Great. I bet they don't even refund the patent fees.
bdowling 5y ago
It's illegal for a US inventor to file a patent application in a foreign country without either (a) obtaining a foreign filing license first, or (b) applying for a US patent and waiting at least 6 months. [0] The idea there is to give the Patent Office a chance to review the invention for national security. [0] https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s140.html https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s140.html

sandworm101 5y ago

They aren't totally secret. Other companies in the field know about and can see them. The patents are just not made as public as normal patents. So friendly companies, those with the appropriate security clearances, still benefit from the shared knowledge. If, sitting in your garage/basement, you invent a tech covered by a secret patent then you will be getting a job offer. If you market that tech then you will probably be arrested for dealing in weapons or other heavily-controlled material. Building missile guidance systems or uranium enrichment centrifuges is not something done by home tinkerers.

FpUser 5y ago
>"If, sitting in your garage/basement, you invent a tech covered by a secret patent then you will be getting a job offer." Or being told to shut up and get lost. And can't sue back because the lawsuit will be dismissed on the basis of national security.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Or knocks on the door from a couple of agents informing you that you are doing something you should not be doing as a private individual. Surely, if you are, you must be a subversive which is the total point of the conversation you'd be having.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    >"Surely, if you are, you must be a subversive" You sound like KGB. Person can invent tech for what them thinks is a totally peaceful purpose and have no idea that it has high military value in some specific field. Fucking witch hunt attitude.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  I mean, if you're developing a missile guidance system or something that you do not intend to be used by your country's military, then I'd hope you have a very good explanation of who you do intend to use said technology. And if not, "shut up and get lost" seems like a pretty mild reaction...
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Are people not remembering the issues with PGP?
    - seoaeu 5y ago
      The issue with PGP was that encrypted communications were classified as a munition, not the concept of export controls. There is no civilian use for an air-to-air missile guidance system. There are plenty of private individuals with legitimate reasons to use encryption

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

lumost 5y ago

If a Lockheed engineer spontaneously discovers a defense technology, Lockheed can patent the tech and try to sell it independently or license the patent to another firm. Some government contracts will assign such spontaneous discoveries to the government with some incentive on the contract for patents produced. Without the patent system, some discoveries would simply be forgotten about or remain in one engineers head - unfortunately the patent world has become fairly bloated with minimally inventive discoveries being written up by lawyers.