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Many pro-green or geeks love Tesla yet don't realize it is overpriced and has huge delayed negative externalities like worn batteries and non-repairable. We alr

Many pro-green or geeks love Tesla yet don't realize it is overpriced and has huge delayed negative externalities like worn batteries and non-repairable. We already have better alternatives than Tesla for decades...called "Toyota". Cheaper to buy and maintain. Quality is superb. If I want to test drive Tesla, now we know where to rent it.

notreallyserio 5y ago
It be sweet if Toyota sold 100% electric vehicles with ~300 mile range. They wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  Yes but they did bet on Hydrogen and lost and were in denial for way too long. In my opinion, their best EV today is a rebadged Citroën van. Their Lexus ev is a shame.
Glawen 5y ago
What is the deal with Toyota? They never really sold a lot of cars here in Europe, but used beaten up Toyota are worth their weight of gold. It seems like a cult. Every manufacturer is capable of making quality cars, you just have to choose the correct model.
- adventured 5y ago
  Toyotas, if maintained reasonably, run very well for a very long time. Their Lexus brand also routinely comes in near the top in reliability. They've earned the enormous credibility they have on reliability. That's the reason their used vehicles are so desirable, you know the vehicle is likely to have a lot of life left in it if you take care of it (ie you'll more than get your money out of it).
  - Glawen 5y ago
    Thing is their diesel in Europe offerings were far from stellar reliability wise. I seriously looked into used gasoline Toyota but found out many engines had a gasket issue. In the end I bought a Renault, knowing that it might have issues but so far nothing happened.
- Multicomp 5y ago
  TL;DR: Toyotas tend to be more reliable, easier to maintain (less yak shaving), and thus tend to last longer and be more valuable. Toyotas have earned their cult-like status because of an extreme focus on quality at manufacture time (see Toyota Production System) which results in durability and reliability of the finished products (the vehicles themselves). For a real world (rather ridiculous and unscientific as it may seem), see this video where a popular automotive show set out to 'kill' (render inoperable without inputting new parts) a Toyota over the course of around 3 videos[1]. Here in the US, I drive a 1998 Toyota 4Runner, a cousin to the vehicle in the video, and I know that every single repair dollar it is fed translates to more miles on the road. Yes, if you feed new parts to old cars, they get slightly less old. But some brands (ancedotes are not data, yada yada, but:) primarily US domestic brands (though foreign BMW etc. can misbehave too) tend to make strange design decisions that result in an unreliable, poorly aging vehicle. A 199x Buick Rivera required my father to drop the front axle IIRC just to swap the oil pan, or something similar. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk
- taffronaut 5y ago
  Toyota work behind the scenes to maintain the residuals of used vehicles. It's not all upfront factory quality. I had a Toyota engine rebuilt at 90k miles and 6 years by Toyota at their cost. They quietly extended (just) the warranty for the head gasket on my model because of premature failures which damaged the cylinder head.
  - thrashh 5y ago
    Sounds like they stand behind their products.
fouc 5y ago
Overpriced? Is that true?
- speedgoose 5y ago
  Probably. Tesla easily sells every car they build at the moment, so they can increase their margins. Some of their cars are still good value. The LFP Model 3 in Norway for example.

notreallyserio 5y ago

It be sweet if Toyota sold 100% electric vehicles with ~300 mile range. They wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.

speedgoose 5y ago
Yes but they did bet on Hydrogen and lost and were in denial for way too long. In my opinion, their best EV today is a rebadged Citroën van. Their Lexus ev is a shame.

Glawen 5y ago

What is the deal with Toyota? They never really sold a lot of cars here in Europe, but used beaten up Toyota are worth their weight of gold. It seems like a cult. Every manufacturer is capable of making quality cars, you just have to choose the correct model.

adventured 5y ago
Toyotas, if maintained reasonably, run very well for a very long time. Their Lexus brand also routinely comes in near the top in reliability. They've earned the enormous credibility they have on reliability. That's the reason their used vehicles are so desirable, you know the vehicle is likely to have a lot of life left in it if you take care of it (ie you'll more than get your money out of it).
- Glawen 5y ago
  Thing is their diesel in Europe offerings were far from stellar reliability wise. I seriously looked into used gasoline Toyota but found out many engines had a gasket issue. In the end I bought a Renault, knowing that it might have issues but so far nothing happened.
Multicomp 5y ago
TL;DR: Toyotas tend to be more reliable, easier to maintain (less yak shaving), and thus tend to last longer and be more valuable. Toyotas have earned their cult-like status because of an extreme focus on quality at manufacture time (see Toyota Production System) which results in durability and reliability of the finished products (the vehicles themselves). For a real world (rather ridiculous and unscientific as it may seem), see this video where a popular automotive show set out to 'kill' (render inoperable without inputting new parts) a Toyota over the course of around 3 videos[1]. Here in the US, I drive a 1998 Toyota 4Runner, a cousin to the vehicle in the video, and I know that every single repair dollar it is fed translates to more miles on the road. Yes, if you feed new parts to old cars, they get slightly less old. But some brands (ancedotes are not data, yada yada, but:) primarily US domestic brands (though foreign BMW etc. can misbehave too) tend to make strange design decisions that result in an unreliable, poorly aging vehicle. A 199x Buick Rivera required my father to drop the front axle IIRC just to swap the oil pan, or something similar. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk
taffronaut 5y ago
Toyota work behind the scenes to maintain the residuals of used vehicles. It's not all upfront factory quality. I had a Toyota engine rebuilt at 90k miles and 6 years by Toyota at their cost. They quietly extended (just) the warranty for the head gasket on my model because of premature failures which damaged the cylinder head.
- thrashh 5y ago
  Sounds like they stand behind their products.

fouc 5y ago

Overpriced? Is that true?

speedgoose 5y ago
Probably. Tesla easily sells every car they build at the moment, so they can increase their margins. Some of their cars are still good value. The LFP Model 3 in Norway for example.