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While not the person you were asking the question of - I recently installed 40kwh of batteries to complement my 20kw of solar. I'm using Enphase for both the s

While not the person you were asking the question of - I recently installed 40kwh of batteries to complement my 20kw of solar. I'm using Enphase for both the solar micro-inverters as well as the batteries. The batteries are LiFePo, so fire risk is very very low. The cars in my garages with gasoline represent a much greater risk. I ended up with Enphase instead of Tesla Powerwalls primarily because the Enphase system supports direct generator integration, which allows smart generator use to offset the battery/solar system in a grid-off situation. The combo of batteries and genset makes for a very reliable scalable solution.

throwawaysea 5y ago
> The batteries are LiFePo, so fire risk is very very low. The cars in my garages with gasoline represent a much greater risk. Is this really true, and do you have a source on this? Gas vehicles are extensively tested to ensure the integrity and safety of their gas tanks, even in extreme crashes, so I feel like the danger is actually very low. I’m also curious what batteries you specifically used and how they are doing in terms of holding capacity after hundreds of cycles. Also, do you live in a cold location?
- ikiris 5y ago
  Your feelings are ignoring basic physics of the materials which is well known.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    Danger is contextual though. My LiPo burning down in the middle of a concrete patch is no risk to anyone, but having it burn down in a backpack in my cupboard will probably burn the house down. Petrol inside a petrol tank inside a modern car is not the same risk as petrol sitting in a jerry can by the stove for another example.
    - sponaugle 5y ago
      Agreed on the petrol - The risk of starting while in a car is very low (at least a modern one), but the risk if you have a fire from another cause is certainly higher. 50 gallons of gasoline is lot of stored energy (as is a couple of propane tanks). All of this risk is still very low, and I would be most concerned with something that can start a fire. Of course some electric cars like the Bolt have been problematic.
- sponaugle 5y ago
  In looking at risk, I would be most concerned with what kind of malfunction could lead to what outcome. LiFePO batteries can be punctured without catching fire, and if a fire is caused by something else, they are not fundamentally very combustible. This chemistry is very different from Lithium-ion. In terms of add this to your house, there is low risk of them starting a fire, and low risk of them contributing to a fire in a significant way. Gasoline in a car has a low risk of starting a fire, but a higher risk in the event of being exposed to a fire. Storing gasoline in a jerry can probably has higher risk of the first, and certainly the second. Keep in mind both of these risks are much much lower than so many other things in your house that you do every day. Extension cords, faulty wiring, arcs, heaters, kitchen fires, etc. I am using Enphase Encharge batteries, which are a LiFePO4 chemistry. They are in my garage, which is heated, so outdoor temperatures don'r make a difference. If they were outdoors, cold temperatures would be a problem below 0F, so if that is your situation I would only do an inside mount. I only have 20-30 cycles so far, but the cycle count is generally well regarded with this chemistry. Still, I don't expect these to last more than 15-20 years.
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    Thanks for the details. How do you scale this up to power the whole house? On the low end I would imagine you need 30 kWh worth, along with the appropriate equipment (5 kW inverter, cabling, enclosures) to tie it all together into a single system, manage charging, connect it to your home’s circuit safely, and so on. Do you buy off the shelf solutions for all that or pay for some kind of ongoing service or DIY?
    - sponaugle 5y ago
      The scale is based on two things - storage capacity, and power capacity. Storage is the kwh of storage, which will determine how long you can run off-grid. The power capacity is the peak output power of the system when off-grid, and is usually limited by the inverters. I am using the Enphase Encharge system, in which each battery unit also includes grid-creation capable micro-inverters. They are integrated into the same boxes, and can provide both grid offset, or grid generation. There is also a 'smart switch' that does the interconnects to the grid, and provides the autotransformer capability ( needed to have 120V split phase ). There are some more details in my house/shop build thread on garage journal: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-side-shop-portland.409988/ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-s...
rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
Definitely make sure you have that generator and also setup a local only monitor of the state of the system. In hurricane Ida's aftermath a lot of Enphase systems bricked themselves because the cell and internet service was down and there's nothing to indicate state of charge etc without external connections.

throwawaysea 5y ago

> The batteries are LiFePo, so fire risk is very very low. The cars in my garages with gasoline represent a much greater risk. Is this really true, and do you have a source on this? Gas vehicles are extensively tested to ensure the integrity and safety of their gas tanks, even in extreme crashes, so I feel like the danger is actually very low. I’m also curious what batteries you specifically used and how they are doing in terms of holding capacity after hundreds of cycles. Also, do you live in a cold location?

ikiris 5y ago
Your feelings are ignoring basic physics of the materials which is well known.
- ehnto 5y ago
  Danger is contextual though. My LiPo burning down in the middle of a concrete patch is no risk to anyone, but having it burn down in a backpack in my cupboard will probably burn the house down. Petrol inside a petrol tank inside a modern car is not the same risk as petrol sitting in a jerry can by the stove for another example.
  - sponaugle 5y ago
    Agreed on the petrol - The risk of starting while in a car is very low (at least a modern one), but the risk if you have a fire from another cause is certainly higher. 50 gallons of gasoline is lot of stored energy (as is a couple of propane tanks). All of this risk is still very low, and I would be most concerned with something that can start a fire. Of course some electric cars like the Bolt have been problematic.
sponaugle 5y ago
In looking at risk, I would be most concerned with what kind of malfunction could lead to what outcome. LiFePO batteries can be punctured without catching fire, and if a fire is caused by something else, they are not fundamentally very combustible. This chemistry is very different from Lithium-ion. In terms of add this to your house, there is low risk of them starting a fire, and low risk of them contributing to a fire in a significant way. Gasoline in a car has a low risk of starting a fire, but a higher risk in the event of being exposed to a fire. Storing gasoline in a jerry can probably has higher risk of the first, and certainly the second. Keep in mind both of these risks are much much lower than so many other things in your house that you do every day. Extension cords, faulty wiring, arcs, heaters, kitchen fires, etc. I am using Enphase Encharge batteries, which are a LiFePO4 chemistry. They are in my garage, which is heated, so outdoor temperatures don'r make a difference. If they were outdoors, cold temperatures would be a problem below 0F, so if that is your situation I would only do an inside mount. I only have 20-30 cycles so far, but the cycle count is generally well regarded with this chemistry. Still, I don't expect these to last more than 15-20 years.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  Thanks for the details. How do you scale this up to power the whole house? On the low end I would imagine you need 30 kWh worth, along with the appropriate equipment (5 kW inverter, cabling, enclosures) to tie it all together into a single system, manage charging, connect it to your home’s circuit safely, and so on. Do you buy off the shelf solutions for all that or pay for some kind of ongoing service or DIY?
  - sponaugle 5y ago
    The scale is based on two things - storage capacity, and power capacity. Storage is the kwh of storage, which will determine how long you can run off-grid. The power capacity is the peak output power of the system when off-grid, and is usually limited by the inverters. I am using the Enphase Encharge system, in which each battery unit also includes grid-creation capable micro-inverters. They are integrated into the same boxes, and can provide both grid offset, or grid generation. There is also a 'smart switch' that does the interconnects to the grid, and provides the autotransformer capability ( needed to have 120V split phase ). There are some more details in my house/shop build thread on garage journal: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-side-shop-portland.409988/ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/jeffs-mountain-s...

rainbowzootsuit 5y ago

Definitely make sure you have that generator and also setup a local only monitor of the state of the system. In hurricane Ida's aftermath a lot of Enphase systems bricked themselves because the cell and internet service was down and there's nothing to indicate state of charge etc without external connections.