8 ms·

I am surprised at what you say regarding the hosting of foreigners. My girlfriend was there for a couple of months and she didn't notice any such thing, and she

I am surprised at what you say regarding the hosting of foreigners. My girlfriend was there for a couple of months and she didn't notice any such thing, and she actually rented a place with a couple of friends, also foreigners. Is this what you describe because of racism or because of government?

arvigeus 5y ago
Depends on where she lived. Beijing, Shanghai and other first tier cities are ok for foreigners. The further away you get, the more blurry situation gets.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  - mlindner 5y ago
    What? The US doesn't require anyone to register with the local government when traveling, foreigner or US citizen. Where are you getting this kind of misinformation?
    - dijonman2 5y ago
      Chinese misinformation campaign?
      - pksebben 5y ago
        going through whimsicalisms posts, and it's actually hard to build a picture of state-run propaganda. They talk about Taiwanese independence like it's a given, for example. This could possibly be a cultural misunderstanding. Never attribute to malice etc.
    - yawaworht1978 5y ago
      I don't know about the us, but in some places in Europe , the police or a security agency passes by daily to pick up a form that's filled out when checking in. Source, friend worked in a hotel and I have seen it with my own eyes.
  - learc83 5y ago
    Where did you get this from? US hotels most definitely do not “register (resident or non-resident) guests with the local government”. A few states require hotel guests to present an ID at checkin.
    - beebeepka 5y ago
      How can you tell if a hotel registers you with the local government? I am not saying they are (never bothered to cross the Atlantic) but you have no way of knowing what they do. My assumption is they all do, directly or not. I mean, 2013 did happen. Guess not everyone was paying attention
      - snomad 5y ago
        remind me, what happened in 2013?
        beebeepka 5y ago
        Check out this Snowden guy. He made some uncomfortable revelations
      - learc83 5y ago
        The “local government” are my neighbors the Sheriff and the County Commissioner. Then there are freedom of information requests, journalist, whistleblowers working for local government, and whistleblowers working for hotels. If the Sheriff knew who you were and had probable cause he could get a warrant to get your credit card transactions from your bank and from that see you were in a hotel. But that’s pretty far away from “hotels register you with the local government.” There was actually a hotel owner who took it on himself to report suspected undocumented immigrants to ICE a few years ago. We know about it because it quickly made its way to the papers, and caused an enormous uproar.
      - throwanem 5y ago
        Spoken like someone who's never spent any time in or around the US service industry. People will gossip, and something like this would be known - hell, I'd likely know it, just on account of knowing some folks who would know and would want to talk about it. I don't live in a tech monoculture, either geographically or socially, and I'm friendly, personable, and good at explaining complex systems simply. Because of that I get a lot of questions from acquaintances about everything from phone and PC repair to what human life might look like after a hard-takeoff singularity. Those conversations go lots of places, but often tend to converge on people's worries about tech in general, as they take the chance of a discussion with someone knowledgeable to check their anxieties against reality. So the surprise, if this were happening, would be more that by now someone hadn't mentioned it, over drinks or otherwise, in my hearing. That said, I don't find that lack at all surprising. What you're thinking of here is more of a Stasi-style "informers everywhere" kind of deal, and US domestic mass surveillance really doesn't work that way. Much more likely would be something like NSA watching payment card transactions en masse for debits from hotels and associating those with cell tower and identity data, and maybe also having quietly penetrated the major booking systems to spot cash purchases. In light of Snowden's 2013 revelations, it wouldn't surprise me to hear about either of those, and indeed I assume they are both being done. (Not least because that's probably how I'd build it. Why deal openly with a bunch of separate businesses and fractious employees when you can much more quietly and easily learn all you want from what's going over the wire?) And aside from all that - not for nothing is it so common a theme in our popular media, especially these last couple of decades, that by and large we'd really just rather not know. You've mentioned that you don't really understand America, and that checks out; if you did, you'd neither be surprised that the response to Snowden was mostly a yawn, nor need telling anything I've said in this comment. Our intelligence agencies certainly don't.
  - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
    The hell you talking about. I've been to roughly 40 states, and am "non-white" and have never had to do this shit at any hotel
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      You don't have to show your ID to check in?
alisonatwork 5y ago
Both. I have been refused access to a place because the landlord was openly racist and didn't want to rent to me after she found out I was a foreigner. There is pretty much no recourse for foreigners who are victims of racism in China, it's an extremely racist country. When you're a foreigner you just kinda have to accept that there are people who will cross the street or shield their kids when they see you, loudly complain when you sit next to them on the bus, refuse to do business with you, etc etc. Of course in rich areas of tier one cities where the government has an image to uphold, this will happen much less frequently. That said, definitely in the case of hotels there are loads of hotels it seems there is a legal aspect as well. If you lived in China you might be familiar with the long and boring process of registration with the police every time you move house. Sometimes you even have to register at more than one place because you moved into a different urban area. According to the law, all foreigners must do this everywhere they go in China, including tourists who are on holiday. It wouldn't be very efficient to make tourists spend a couple hours at the police station every time they checked into a hotel, so some hotels have some arrangement with the local police to do this on their guests' behalf behind the scenes. Most tourists nowadays don't even know that they have been registered with the police everywhere they travel. But smaller hotels don't provide that service. I have successfully blagged my way into staying at one smaller hotel by assuring them i would visit the local police myself to register, but a lot of them don't want the hassle or (perhaps) attention from the local authorities, so they just ban foreigners. When I left China it was during the pandemic, and pretty much no hotels at all would allow foreigners to stay. This was xenophobia, pure and simple. There were a few times I had to first visit the police station and ask the police where I could stay, because hotel after hotel after hotel refused me, despite my green health code, valid visa and so on.
- carlmr 5y ago
  I've had smaller hotels tell me they can't host foreigners due to some law that you need to have a star rating which they didn't. The only time I had problems booking a hotel was in Shanghai and Beijing though, in other cities there was never an issue. Also I was always greeted with utter friendliness, so I don't get the everybody's xenophobic aspect. I do speak some (very basic) Mandarin though so maybe that helps with how you're treated.

arvigeus 5y ago

Depends on where she lived. Beijing, Shanghai and other first tier cities are ok for foreigners. The further away you get, the more blurry situation gets.

whimsicalism 5y ago
- mlindner 5y ago
  What? The US doesn't require anyone to register with the local government when traveling, foreigner or US citizen. Where are you getting this kind of misinformation?
  - dijonman2 5y ago
    Chinese misinformation campaign?
    - pksebben 5y ago
      going through whimsicalisms posts, and it's actually hard to build a picture of state-run propaganda. They talk about Taiwanese independence like it's a given, for example. This could possibly be a cultural misunderstanding. Never attribute to malice etc.
  - yawaworht1978 5y ago
    I don't know about the us, but in some places in Europe , the police or a security agency passes by daily to pick up a form that's filled out when checking in. Source, friend worked in a hotel and I have seen it with my own eyes.
- learc83 5y ago
  Where did you get this from? US hotels most definitely do not “register (resident or non-resident) guests with the local government”. A few states require hotel guests to present an ID at checkin.
  - beebeepka 5y ago
    How can you tell if a hotel registers you with the local government? I am not saying they are (never bothered to cross the Atlantic) but you have no way of knowing what they do. My assumption is they all do, directly or not. I mean, 2013 did happen. Guess not everyone was paying attention
    - snomad 5y ago
      remind me, what happened in 2013?
      - beebeepka 5y ago
        Check out this Snowden guy. He made some uncomfortable revelations
    - learc83 5y ago
      The “local government” are my neighbors the Sheriff and the County Commissioner. Then there are freedom of information requests, journalist, whistleblowers working for local government, and whistleblowers working for hotels. If the Sheriff knew who you were and had probable cause he could get a warrant to get your credit card transactions from your bank and from that see you were in a hotel. But that’s pretty far away from “hotels register you with the local government.” There was actually a hotel owner who took it on himself to report suspected undocumented immigrants to ICE a few years ago. We know about it because it quickly made its way to the papers, and caused an enormous uproar.
    - throwanem 5y ago
      Spoken like someone who's never spent any time in or around the US service industry. People will gossip, and something like this would be known - hell, I'd likely know it, just on account of knowing some folks who would know and would want to talk about it. I don't live in a tech monoculture, either geographically or socially, and I'm friendly, personable, and good at explaining complex systems simply. Because of that I get a lot of questions from acquaintances about everything from phone and PC repair to what human life might look like after a hard-takeoff singularity. Those conversations go lots of places, but often tend to converge on people's worries about tech in general, as they take the chance of a discussion with someone knowledgeable to check their anxieties against reality. So the surprise, if this were happening, would be more that by now someone hadn't mentioned it, over drinks or otherwise, in my hearing. That said, I don't find that lack at all surprising. What you're thinking of here is more of a Stasi-style "informers everywhere" kind of deal, and US domestic mass surveillance really doesn't work that way. Much more likely would be something like NSA watching payment card transactions en masse for debits from hotels and associating those with cell tower and identity data, and maybe also having quietly penetrated the major booking systems to spot cash purchases. In light of Snowden's 2013 revelations, it wouldn't surprise me to hear about either of those, and indeed I assume they are both being done. (Not least because that's probably how I'd build it. Why deal openly with a bunch of separate businesses and fractious employees when you can much more quietly and easily learn all you want from what's going over the wire?) And aside from all that - not for nothing is it so common a theme in our popular media, especially these last couple of decades, that by and large we'd really just rather not know. You've mentioned that you don't really understand America, and that checks out; if you did, you'd neither be surprised that the response to Snowden was mostly a yawn, nor need telling anything I've said in this comment. Our intelligence agencies certainly don't.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  The hell you talking about. I've been to roughly 40 states, and am "non-white" and have never had to do this shit at any hotel
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    You don't have to show your ID to check in?

alisonatwork 5y ago

Both. I have been refused access to a place because the landlord was openly racist and didn't want to rent to me after she found out I was a foreigner. There is pretty much no recourse for foreigners who are victims of racism in China, it's an extremely racist country. When you're a foreigner you just kinda have to accept that there are people who will cross the street or shield their kids when they see you, loudly complain when you sit next to them on the bus, refuse to do business with you, etc etc. Of course in rich areas of tier one cities where the government has an image to uphold, this will happen much less frequently. That said, definitely in the case of hotels there are loads of hotels it seems there is a legal aspect as well. If you lived in China you might be familiar with the long and boring process of registration with the police every time you move house. Sometimes you even have to register at more than one place because you moved into a different urban area. According to the law, all foreigners must do this everywhere they go in China, including tourists who are on holiday. It wouldn't be very efficient to make tourists spend a couple hours at the police station every time they checked into a hotel, so some hotels have some arrangement with the local police to do this on their guests' behalf behind the scenes. Most tourists nowadays don't even know that they have been registered with the police everywhere they travel. But smaller hotels don't provide that service. I have successfully blagged my way into staying at one smaller hotel by assuring them i would visit the local police myself to register, but a lot of them don't want the hassle or (perhaps) attention from the local authorities, so they just ban foreigners. When I left China it was during the pandemic, and pretty much no hotels at all would allow foreigners to stay. This was xenophobia, pure and simple. There were a few times I had to first visit the police station and ask the police where I could stay, because hotel after hotel after hotel refused me, despite my green health code, valid visa and so on.

carlmr 5y ago
I've had smaller hotels tell me they can't host foreigners due to some law that you need to have a star rating which they didn't. The only time I had problems booking a hotel was in Shanghai and Beijing though, in other cities there was never an issue. Also I was always greeted with utter friendliness, so I don't get the everybody's xenophobic aspect. I do speak some (very basic) Mandarin though so maybe that helps with how you're treated.