4 ms·

> it's a scandal that they're running the world cup in Qatar. A winter world cup pushes the schedules way off what's normal and traditional. That is of course n

> it's a scandal that they're running the world cup in Qatar. A winter world cup pushes the schedules way off what's normal and traditional. That is of course not the only concern, there's also stories about dozens of people dying building these stadiums in the desert heat. What a paragraph. The death toll is at least in the many thousands, perhaps even >10,000.

eru 5y ago
Sources? I found eg https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r... which tries to count all deaths, not just what can be attributed to the football stadiums. (It's a high death toll in any case. But we should still stick to the facts.)
- csomar 5y ago
  It's not a high death toll (they have 1.5million workers of these nationalities). There is no transparent due-process for the identification of the death cause or the investigation of the working conditions. So these numbers don't really translate to much...
- lordnacho 5y ago
  I said dozens because it seems credible, I didn't look anything up. It's somewhat common for construction workers to die even in the modern world, but my shock is more that it seems worse than most projects (Was it Guardian who had the story about people getting so tired they fell asleep and fell off the stadium roof?), yet most projects are for genuinely useful things like bridges and dams, not entertainment.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > I said dozens because it seems credible, I didn't look anything up. So you literally just made up a statistic out of nothing and posted it here? Why do you think that’s ok?
    - datavirtue 5y ago
      Lol....it's an internet forum, not a referenced work like Wikipedia.
    - a4isms 5y ago
      Alan: Dozens of people died of COVID last year. Beth: You forking idiot, millions died, not dozens. Alan: Okay, so it's a lot of dozens. What's your problem?
    - lordnacho 5y ago
      There's a big difference between making it up and having a hunch from reading a bit, without the specific sources to hand. There's nothing wrong with that, you can go and do your own research if you want, don't expect me to do it for you. It's pretty laughable for you to suggest that people can't just say what they want on the internet
      - geranim0 5y ago
        Nah you were speaking higher than your hat
      - crusty 5y ago
        "There's a big difference between making it up and having a hunch from reading a bit" - this is the laughable part, because they state a number in the article, so clearly a BIT of reading was the most that was done. Ha. If you're going to just throw out a random but plausible number for your argument's sake, you grab it from the article, if you've read far enough to see it.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
csomar 5y ago
This source claims 6.5k since 2011: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r... That's around ~700 deaths per year. But Qatar has ~1.5million workers from India, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. So, ~700/year is not an outrageous number for natural deaths (works out around 0.04%). This is way lower than the death rate in the USA for a young age segment (25-40): https://www.statista.com/statistics/241572/death-rate-by-age-and-sex-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/241572/death-rate-by-age... Qatar is hurting more by not allowing an independent and transparent journalism around the conditions and deaths of these workers. Just shows the idiocy at the top level of their government.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bigbillheck 5y ago
  This analysis is assuming all 1.5M peop,e were working on World Cup stuff.
  - csomar 5y ago
    The source is not limited to the World Cup though, but all workers.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  Of course transparency in reporting should be the first prerequisite for arranging a World Cup. And unless we have free press showing the opposite, we can only assume the death toll to be higher than reported.
mcv 5y ago
Yeah, I'm far more concerned about the apparent slavery of migrant workers in Qatar than about how it affects some schedules.

eru 5y ago

Sources? I found eg https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r... which tries to count all deaths, not just what can be attributed to the football stadiums. (It's a high death toll in any case. But we should still stick to the facts.)

csomar 5y ago
It's not a high death toll (they have 1.5million workers of these nationalities). There is no transparent due-process for the identification of the death cause or the investigation of the working conditions. So these numbers don't really translate to much...
lordnacho 5y ago
I said dozens because it seems credible, I didn't look anything up. It's somewhat common for construction workers to die even in the modern world, but my shock is more that it seems worse than most projects (Was it Guardian who had the story about people getting so tired they fell asleep and fell off the stadium roof?), yet most projects are for genuinely useful things like bridges and dams, not entertainment.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > I said dozens because it seems credible, I didn't look anything up. So you literally just made up a statistic out of nothing and posted it here? Why do you think that’s ok?
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    Lol....it's an internet forum, not a referenced work like Wikipedia.
  - a4isms 5y ago
    Alan: Dozens of people died of COVID last year. Beth: You forking idiot, millions died, not dozens. Alan: Okay, so it's a lot of dozens. What's your problem?
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    There's a big difference between making it up and having a hunch from reading a bit, without the specific sources to hand. There's nothing wrong with that, you can go and do your own research if you want, don't expect me to do it for you. It's pretty laughable for you to suggest that people can't just say what they want on the internet
    - geranim0 5y ago
      Nah you were speaking higher than your hat
    - crusty 5y ago
      "There's a big difference between making it up and having a hunch from reading a bit" - this is the laughable part, because they state a number in the article, so clearly a BIT of reading was the most that was done. Ha. If you're going to just throw out a random but plausible number for your argument's sake, you grab it from the article, if you've read far enough to see it.
hellbannedguy 5y ago

csomar 5y ago

This source claims 6.5k since 2011: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r... That's around ~700 deaths per year. But Qatar has ~1.5million workers from India, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. So, ~700/year is not an outrageous number for natural deaths (works out around 0.04%). This is way lower than the death rate in the USA for a young age segment (25-40): https://www.statista.com/statistics/241572/death-rate-by-age-and-sex-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/241572/death-rate-by-age... Qatar is hurting more by not allowing an independent and transparent journalism around the conditions and deaths of these workers. Just shows the idiocy at the top level of their government.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bigbillheck 5y ago
This analysis is assuming all 1.5M peop,e were working on World Cup stuff.
- csomar 5y ago
  The source is not limited to the World Cup though, but all workers.
alkonaut 5y ago
Of course transparency in reporting should be the first prerequisite for arranging a World Cup. And unless we have free press showing the opposite, we can only assume the death toll to be higher than reported.

mcv 5y ago

Yeah, I'm far more concerned about the apparent slavery of migrant workers in Qatar than about how it affects some schedules.