6 ms·

Is it slave labour, I mean are they being forced to do it and not being paid for it, then sure boycott it. If NOT, and if it is an avenue for prisoners to earn

by ngc248 5y ago

Is it slave labour, I mean are they being forced to do it and not being paid for it, then sure boycott it. If NOT, and if it is an avenue for prisoners to earn money, benefits, then don't boycott it

olliej 5y ago
The problem is that privately run prisons require prisoners to pay for things that are realistically necessary despite not being legally mandated. They overcharge more than airports, and pay next to nothing. They suffer because of it, and non-prisoners suffer as well, as they're competing with what is functionally slave labour.
- ngc248 5y ago
  True, i agree with your point on private prisons. Anything for profit will skew the everything towards that which makes more profit
nichtich 5y ago
Once you are already in prison it's hard to say whether you are forced to do it or not. It's not like you have a lot of employers and professions to choose from. And if the incentives include things like easier to get parole then refusing to participate would mean more time served. It'd be pretty hard to prove some labor is not "forced" in a prison setting.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > And if the incentives include things like easier to get parole then refusing to participate would mean more time served. So what? That's just serving the original sentence. That doesn't sound forced to me. Is it forced labor when someone chooses to take a community service option instead of being locked up?
  - breakfastduck 5y ago
    Yes of course it is. You're being forced to do it or end up in prison. How is that not forced? It's essentially a choice between 1 option at that point.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      You earned the prison. Is it somehow better to remove the option and just lock you up? Negative prison time, applied to a legitimate sentence, should never count as forcing.
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        You pretend to be unaware of false arrest, fabricated evidence, bad representation, and over-sentencing of underclass people. US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        I don't pretend to be unaware of that. I think it's a separate problem. Like, okay, we say that anyone improperly imprisoned is being forced into labor. What about everyone else? The argument above was that it clearly is forced labor, even when your sentence is completely valid. I disagree with that. > US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly. It's a mix of things. Even if you fixed all the bias in the system, you could still have a high incarceration rate with harsh but not inherently unjust laws.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        Nobody has a legitimate reason to want a high incarceration rate. The only reason to have a higher incarceration rate than any other country in the whole world is, specifically, because you want to have your underclass ready to hand for slave labor. Or, generally, to repress them. If you are relying on threat of incarceration to discourage criminal behavior, having the highest such rate in the world is reliable evidence that your method is failing to achieve that aim. Other countries are demonstrating better methods you could learn from. If you wanted to, that is.
BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
> I mean are they being forced to do it and not being paid for it Slavery is forced labor, which is orthogonal to being paid. If you are forced to work but are also paid (perhaps rare, but not unheard of), you are still a slave regardless of the pay. If you aren't being paid but aren't being forced to work, you aren't a slave (that's called volunteering.)

by ngc248 5y ago

Is it slave labour, I mean are they being forced to do it and not being paid for it, then sure boycott it. If NOT, and if it is an avenue for prisoners to earn money, benefits, then don't boycott it

olliej 5y ago

The problem is that privately run prisons require prisoners to pay for things that are realistically necessary despite not being legally mandated. They overcharge more than airports, and pay next to nothing. They suffer because of it, and non-prisoners suffer as well, as they're competing with what is functionally slave labour.

ngc248 5y ago
True, i agree with your point on private prisons. Anything for profit will skew the everything towards that which makes more profit

nichtich 5y ago

Once you are already in prison it's hard to say whether you are forced to do it or not. It's not like you have a lot of employers and professions to choose from. And if the incentives include things like easier to get parole then refusing to participate would mean more time served. It'd be pretty hard to prove some labor is not "forced" in a prison setting.

Dylan16807 5y ago
> And if the incentives include things like easier to get parole then refusing to participate would mean more time served. So what? That's just serving the original sentence. That doesn't sound forced to me. Is it forced labor when someone chooses to take a community service option instead of being locked up?
- breakfastduck 5y ago
  Yes of course it is. You're being forced to do it or end up in prison. How is that not forced? It's essentially a choice between 1 option at that point.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    You earned the prison. Is it somehow better to remove the option and just lock you up? Negative prison time, applied to a legitimate sentence, should never count as forcing.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      You pretend to be unaware of false arrest, fabricated evidence, bad representation, and over-sentencing of underclass people. US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        I don't pretend to be unaware of that. I think it's a separate problem. Like, okay, we say that anyone improperly imprisoned is being forced into labor. What about everyone else? The argument above was that it clearly is forced labor, even when your sentence is completely valid. I disagree with that. > US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly. It's a mix of things. Even if you fixed all the bias in the system, you could still have a high incarceration rate with harsh but not inherently unjust laws.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        Nobody has a legitimate reason to want a high incarceration rate. The only reason to have a higher incarceration rate than any other country in the whole world is, specifically, because you want to have your underclass ready to hand for slave labor. Or, generally, to repress them. If you are relying on threat of incarceration to discourage criminal behavior, having the highest such rate in the world is reliable evidence that your method is failing to achieve that aim. Other countries are demonstrating better methods you could learn from. If you wanted to, that is.

BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago

> I mean are they being forced to do it and not being paid for it Slavery is forced labor, which is orthogonal to being paid. If you are forced to work but are also paid (perhaps rare, but not unheard of), you are still a slave regardless of the pay. If you aren't being paid but aren't being forced to work, you aren't a slave (that's called volunteering.)