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for what it is worth it was great being the last person around without a smart phone. I dont know how old you are but people use to be alone with their own thou

for what it is worth it was great being the last person around without a smart phone. I dont know how old you are but people use to be alone with their own thoughts. Amazing things happen if you ponder situations until satisfied with your own conclusions. the delay made for wonderful long form conversations. exchanging text like we are doing here doesnt build relationships either. if i would die in the next 20 min you wouldnt blink an eye.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ska 5y ago
Versions of this comment were common when radio first was introduced. And television. Etc. It's fine to feel nostalgia for some aspects of past interaction of course, but a mistake to read too much into it. Generally an area to be aware of recency bias.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  I’m afraid that’s just a meme. Each of these have tradeoffs. It’s not nostalgia to want to take the other side. You’ve probably encountered the popular movement to not watch television, and terrestrial radio is in decline. Podcasts are a sort of modern radio equivalent and there is plenty written about the downsides of filling too much time with them. Boredom and idle thought are recognized by physiological and psychological experts to have value. There is certainly value to resiliency and judiciously making the most advantage of each new trend in communication, however.
_carbyau_ 5y ago
While I get your point, I am amused you are worried about "building relationships" with an account named throwaway14356 which kind of implies you are ready/happy to drop this account at any moment. :-) My view, not every relationship in the world is to be deeply meaningful or productive. I am happy if I get a nice thought or new angle from this blobs-of-text site.
- thelettere 5y ago
  The data is pretty clear that the only time social media is beneficial is if it leads to the formation/maintenance of long term relationships. Without that it's just entertainment, and entertainment that is not "happy" making for most.
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    Ok. But social media use itself has to be placed in context of the larger attention economy. For example, is it worse than watching TV/cable/netflix/gaming/multiplayer gaming/crafting hobbies/reading books etc etc? To answer my own question, I think Social Media is worse than the other options mentioned above and so I have long drifted off FB. And most of my friends on FB are continuing longstanding relationships. But I don't know the studies on that and I am willing to accept that different people do things differently. For example, on this site, I like the intelligent responses, thought provoking discussions, sometimes amazing recommendations on any number of topics. But I don't feel I need to be friends with any particular individual to benefit from that nor contribute to it.
    - thelettere 5y ago
      The difference between liking/enjoying and gaining benefit I think is crucial here. It's akin to the difference between pleasure and happiness. No doubt the vast majority of people (if not everyone) on social media gains some pleasure from it. But as far as increasing happiness, aiding in quality of life and well-being and similar measures, it - in general - does not move the needle and not infrequently pulls in the opposite direction (in the absence of personal bonds). The other important difference is between using social media sites as "literature" (i.e. not interacting with it but just consuming its thought-provoking and useful content, as you mention) and as a conversational medium. The former - in the absence of obviously harmful content like people showing off and then comparing oneself to them, or outrage porn, ect - is as far as I'm aware harmless and has a similar profile to reading in general. But the constant one-off interactions, like this? It hits different. We know that consistent interaction with the same person - even if it is light meaningless interaction - has benefit. One study that comes to mind is of the daily interaction between customer and cashier every morning at the coffee shop. Believe it or not that has a statistically significant (though by no means large) positive effect on a person's mental state. Deep personal one-off conversation in person also have a significant benefit, at least in the short term. But this - whatever this is - generally doesn't. Of course everyone is different, and obviously not everyone uses it exactly the same way, so there are outliers. But also human beings are talented at lying to themselves about the effects of things on them, often in the direction of exaggerating or inventing a benefit (and also failing at the afore-mentioned differentiation between pleasure and happiness). That's one of the big problems that researchers in outcomes studies on any number of things have to deal with. Objective observer and close other ratings of a person's happiness after say therapy or anti-depressants are often wildly less rosy than the person's self-report. We humans are often not good at being honest with ourselves. But you are right about the "attention economy" context. We - near worldwide it seems - have little perfected the art of leisure. Our institutions have failed us, and we in turn have created little to take the place of the old ways. Our choices are too often between similarly poor options. That's probably why work and over-work have remained as popular as it has - what lies outside of it is too often stupefying. Which is one reason why I'm here now, talking with you, embracing (or stomaching) this momentary pleasure in what is perhaps a trade-off with a bit of my happiness.
kshacker 5y ago
> Amazing things happen if you ponder situations until satisfied with your own conclusions. the delay made for wonderful long form conversations. I was wondering about this recently but so far unable to unplug. Wish it was a tad easier

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ska 5y ago

Versions of this comment were common when radio first was introduced. And television. Etc. It's fine to feel nostalgia for some aspects of past interaction of course, but a mistake to read too much into it. Generally an area to be aware of recency bias.

1123581321 5y ago
I’m afraid that’s just a meme. Each of these have tradeoffs. It’s not nostalgia to want to take the other side. You’ve probably encountered the popular movement to not watch television, and terrestrial radio is in decline. Podcasts are a sort of modern radio equivalent and there is plenty written about the downsides of filling too much time with them. Boredom and idle thought are recognized by physiological and psychological experts to have value. There is certainly value to resiliency and judiciously making the most advantage of each new trend in communication, however.

_carbyau_ 5y ago

While I get your point, I am amused you are worried about "building relationships" with an account named throwaway14356 which kind of implies you are ready/happy to drop this account at any moment. :-) My view, not every relationship in the world is to be deeply meaningful or productive. I am happy if I get a nice thought or new angle from this blobs-of-text site.

thelettere 5y ago
The data is pretty clear that the only time social media is beneficial is if it leads to the formation/maintenance of long term relationships. Without that it's just entertainment, and entertainment that is not "happy" making for most.
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  Ok. But social media use itself has to be placed in context of the larger attention economy. For example, is it worse than watching TV/cable/netflix/gaming/multiplayer gaming/crafting hobbies/reading books etc etc? To answer my own question, I think Social Media is worse than the other options mentioned above and so I have long drifted off FB. And most of my friends on FB are continuing longstanding relationships. But I don't know the studies on that and I am willing to accept that different people do things differently. For example, on this site, I like the intelligent responses, thought provoking discussions, sometimes amazing recommendations on any number of topics. But I don't feel I need to be friends with any particular individual to benefit from that nor contribute to it.
  - thelettere 5y ago
    The difference between liking/enjoying and gaining benefit I think is crucial here. It's akin to the difference between pleasure and happiness. No doubt the vast majority of people (if not everyone) on social media gains some pleasure from it. But as far as increasing happiness, aiding in quality of life and well-being and similar measures, it - in general - does not move the needle and not infrequently pulls in the opposite direction (in the absence of personal bonds). The other important difference is between using social media sites as "literature" (i.e. not interacting with it but just consuming its thought-provoking and useful content, as you mention) and as a conversational medium. The former - in the absence of obviously harmful content like people showing off and then comparing oneself to them, or outrage porn, ect - is as far as I'm aware harmless and has a similar profile to reading in general. But the constant one-off interactions, like this? It hits different. We know that consistent interaction with the same person - even if it is light meaningless interaction - has benefit. One study that comes to mind is of the daily interaction between customer and cashier every morning at the coffee shop. Believe it or not that has a statistically significant (though by no means large) positive effect on a person's mental state. Deep personal one-off conversation in person also have a significant benefit, at least in the short term. But this - whatever this is - generally doesn't. Of course everyone is different, and obviously not everyone uses it exactly the same way, so there are outliers. But also human beings are talented at lying to themselves about the effects of things on them, often in the direction of exaggerating or inventing a benefit (and also failing at the afore-mentioned differentiation between pleasure and happiness). That's one of the big problems that researchers in outcomes studies on any number of things have to deal with. Objective observer and close other ratings of a person's happiness after say therapy or anti-depressants are often wildly less rosy than the person's self-report. We humans are often not good at being honest with ourselves. But you are right about the "attention economy" context. We - near worldwide it seems - have little perfected the art of leisure. Our institutions have failed us, and we in turn have created little to take the place of the old ways. Our choices are too often between similarly poor options. That's probably why work and over-work have remained as popular as it has - what lies outside of it is too often stupefying. Which is one reason why I'm here now, talking with you, embracing (or stomaching) this momentary pleasure in what is perhaps a trade-off with a bit of my happiness.

kshacker 5y ago

> Amazing things happen if you ponder situations until satisfied with your own conclusions. the delay made for wonderful long form conversations. I was wondering about this recently but so far unable to unplug. Wish it was a tad easier