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Before you use this as an excuse to accuse the commenter you disagree with as being a Wumao, note that China's propaganda strategy serves to distract rather tha

by Aunche 5y ago

Before you use this as an excuse to accuse the commenter you disagree with as being a Wumao, note that China's propaganda strategy serves to distract rather than directly engage, as they would rather minimize engagement. It's the same principle of "don't feed the trolls." Here's a Harvard paper that covers this topic more in depth, though it's about domestic propaganda: https://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/50c.pdf https://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/50c.pdf

thaumasiotes 5y ago
> a Wumao For reference, the initial W doesn't represent a sound, so this would be "an wumao". (Same for Wuhan.)
- bozhark 5y ago
- frenchyatwork 5y ago
  In English, Wuhan is typically pronounced with a "w" (/wuːhæn/ or /wuːhɑːn/), see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan.
  - HKH2 5y ago
    In Mandarin, it's pronounced like the latter. You can definitely hear a 'w' sound.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > You can definitely hear a 'w' sound. Compare "han wudi de muzang" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9TeG6MdbmY#t=117 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9TeG6MdbmY#t=117 Or "wuhan de yi tian" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 Or "yi zuo shi da wuhan" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=66 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=66 (same video as above, earlier timestamp)
      - HKH2 5y ago
        You can argue it's not as strong as a 'w' in English, but it's definitely there, enough to justify saying 'a' instead of 'an'.
        frenchyatwork 5y ago
        This is kind of complicated because [u] is a rounded vowel, so it's slightly "labialized" even if it's not preceded by [w]. Additionally, English spelling rules are complete insanity, and if an English speaker sees "uhan" they'd probably pronounce the 'u' as [ju:].
- CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
  The "w" sound is in the u, so unless you also write "an western movie" a wumao is correct.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    What are you talking about?
    - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
      Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there.
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there. Correct. > Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Nope. This one is ∅ + u. You can listen to the name of Wuhan here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82
        CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
        Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? Maybe it's not as clear as in the English word west, but you can't deny it's there no? Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you?
        thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? No? > Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? You could make that argument. But 武 never transitions out of it. That transition is how you get a glide (or semivowel) as opposed to a vowel. 我 is /wo/, with a brief /w/. 武 is /u/, and that vowel persists through the entire syllable. If you wanted to call it /w/ instead of /u/, you'd have a syllable with an onset and no rime, and your /w/ would last much too long to be called a semivowel. > Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you? I can't really speak to this, but I'll assume by 喔 you mean something that is like 窝 without the w- onset. Something like 哦? They don't sound the same. This actually raises an interesting question... > I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there Am I right that you're a native Mandarin speaker? Mandarin doesn't distinguish between /wu/ and /u/, or at least no minimal pair exists that would prove the distinction is drawn. (Granted, the sequence /wu/ is not at all common in English, but we do have a minimal pair -- woo / ooh -- as long as you're willing to accept "ooh" as a word.) The lack of a distinction in Mandarin leaves the judgment of a Mandarin speaker open to question. seanmcdirmid mentioned 服务 - do you also clearly hear a W sound there?
- abmrolp 5y ago
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Applying English rules to Chinese words is the ultimate folly. Also, it really depends on your dialect of Chinese, I always hear wu with a w (e.g. woo) if the wu is at the beginning of the word. Inside a word (like fuwuyuan), I usually don't hear or say it.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Applying English rules to Chinese words is the ultimate folly. The more I think about this, the less I understand what you were trying to say. The first problem is of course that a(n) is an English word. But more than that, every sentence of English must apply the rules of English to every part of itself. If instead of "scare" we used the Chinese loanword xia, we would say things like "you xiaed me". We would not say "you xia me" with the past tense present but unmarked, nor would we say "you xiale me".
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > But more than that, every sentence of English must apply the rules of English to every part of itself. But it is undefined. English doesn't have strong dialects like Chinese does. Southerners are more likely not to pronounce the "w" in wu, so they might say "an wugui" (since they are more likely to say oogway like in Kungfu Panda) while a northerner will say "a wugui", since they are more familiar with saying the w sound. This is only if they are very familiar with English also, otherwise they will completely ignore the distinction between a and an. So...dialects make the question hard to answer.
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > But it is undefined. English doesn't have strong dialects like Chinese does. The second part is a more interesting claim. But broadly speaking, for any two Chinese dialects you could probably identify two languages, one being a variety of English, that stand at a similar distance from each other. The second language might or might not be called "English"; it might be called Scots, or Dutch. Whether to pronounce a(n) with the /n/ realized is not undefined, but it is specific to the speaker. This is a case where variation within languages named "English" is more than enough to show disparities, as witness the confused Americans who copy the phrase "an historic occasion" from British usage. I took the position, in my original comment, that I was responding to someone who didn't speak Chinese (and therefore didn't know how to pronounce "wumao") but did speak English (and therefore did know how to pronounce "an"). I didn't think I was speaking to someone who knew the pronunciation of "wumao" but wasn't sure how to use an article with it. I don't think regional variation in pronunciation in China can explain an English speaker pronouncing wumao or Wuhan with an initial w-. The citation form of the syllable has no initial consonant, and all sources are explicit about this. Chinese broadcast media, in running speech, still doesn't produce anything an English speaker would recognize as an initial w-. (I'm having to rely, for this claim, on the television programs I found on youtube, linked elsewhere.) There just isn't a source that would provide an English speaker outside China with an example of using w-. So I assume what's happening is that people pronounce w- because they see the spelling. (Also, I don't see many English speakers pronouncing it Taivan instead of Taiwan.) I find it very plausible that regional variation exists, though, because I know the Shanghainese (吴 dialect) pronunciation of 勿 is -- using a pinyin-like spelling -- "ve" with an initial /v/-like sound.
- commoner 5y ago
  This isn't correct, because "an" is only used in front of words that begin with a vowel sound (in the dialect of English used). > The form an is used before words starting with a vowel sound, regardless of whether the word begins with a vowel letter. This avoids the glottal stop (momentary silent pause) that would otherwise be required between a and a following vowel sound. Where the next word begins with a consonant sound, a is used. Examples: a box; an apple; an SSO (pronounced "es-es-oh"); an MP3 (pronounced "em-pee-three"); a HEPA filter (here, HEPA is an acronym, a series of letters pronounced as a word rather than as individual letters); an hour (the h is silent); a one-armed bandit (pronounced "won..."); an heir (pronounced "air"); an herb in American English (where the h is silent), but a herb in British English; "a unionized worker" but "an ionized particle". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_articles#Distinction_between_a_and_an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_articles#Distinction_b... For example, "womb" starts with the same sound as "wumao", but we say "a womb" instead of "an womb". For the same reason, we say "a wumao" instead of "an wumao".
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > "an" is only used in front of words that begin with a vowel sound Yes, that's what I'm saying. > For example, "womb" starts with the same sound as "wumao" No, it doesn't. "Oops" starts with the same sound as "wumao". "Womb" has a /w/ sound before that. There is no /w/ in 五毛. What did you think I meant by saying "the initial W doesn't represent a sound"?
    - commoner 5y ago
      I don't think 五 ("wu", which means "five") is pronounced the same way as the "oo" in "oops", at least in Mandarin Chinese. I hear the "w" very clearly in this counting video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eLP3FuuEVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eLP3FuuEVs I think there is a lot of irony in this subthread, since it is responding to a comment about derailing the discussion by distracting from the main topic as a strategy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29655271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29655271. Intentional or not, this subthread shows just how effective this strategy can be.
throw10920 5y ago
> Before you use this as an excuse to accuse the commenter you disagree with as being a Wumao Well, most people generally shouldn't be doing that in the first place (it's against the HN guidelines in particular and bad form in general, with the exception of blatant repeated bad-faith low-effort posts). Even so, using "is this propaganda a distraction or direct engagement" as a heuristic for "is this post propaganda" is also not a great thing to do. Any large organization engaging in propaganda will have multiple large sub-orgs, stakeholders, and inconsistencies due to misaligned incentives, miscommunications, and the squishiness that comes along with propaganda.
- Aunche 5y ago
  >Well, most people generally shouldn't be doing that in the first place I'm mostly reminding them for when they post on Reddit, where I occasionally get accused for taking a Realpolitik stance of China issues. Even here, someone mentioned the pervasiveness of the "50 cent meme" as evidence of China's state sponsored propaganda. >Even so, using "is this propaganda a distraction or direct engagement" as a heuristic for "is this post propaganda" is also not a great thing to do. I agree it's not a perfect heuristic, but I don't think it matters in practice. A spammer is a spammer regardless of whether they're working for the CCP, and should be treated as such. There's no need to make a spicier accusation that you have no evidence for.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chunghuaming 5y ago
Being a Chinese citizen right now means: - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) - You cannot go beyond China's intranet - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally - You have very little rights as LGBT - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power - You are constantly subjugated to random mass testing - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship 终究怀揣的不安，是愈来愈近的丧钟声
- star-trek-fleet 5y ago
  None of these can be attributed to authoritarian, or some form of CCP brutality, when moderate amount of scrutiny is applied ... > - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) This is of course because of China's CVOID policy, which is 0 tolerance. That's a rational decision of China's high-density population, and manufacturing-based economy. I do not think it's inherent anti-human-rights, as the death count is fractional to open-co-existence policy. Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one. > - You cannot go beyond China's intranet VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law. > - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks This is just not true... You can use various services to transfer money out. The only issue is that they are subject to certain limitations, which are far more restrictive than US. But again, US dominates world financial system, there is a view that financial imperialism is a key part of US capitalist exploiting Chinese workers. Thus the financial limitation. I doubt that anyone other than the rob-barrons are affected by this. I personally know a lot of Crypto super riches, trust me, they are absolutely a net negative force in society. > - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally You can. VPN to netflix. And a lot of pirated content. They were just not allowed to go through the official channel. Of course, CCP is wrong here. But let's not paint a picture that Chinese people are sheeps. > - You have very little rights as LGBT Not sure what you are talking about. LGBT is not discriminated officially in any form in the CHinese society. Society still holds stigma over these people. One primary reason is that these groups are associated with higher chance of sexually-transmitted diseases. And dont assume me a CCP associate, I have a good friend who is gay. He is my college friend. He is pretty happy. > - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat This is probably what forced upon by the private firms. These are punished heavily by CCP recently. Jack Ma and Alibaba are the defender of 996... > - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list This is not true. I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. None of the 50 people ever had any sign of being bothered. I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. If that's true, China either already have an AGI, or what we bought everyone are not actually made in China, because there are simply not enough cheap labor to produce them in the first place, and most of them are employed in watching others. > - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) 1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared... First, the number of billionaires are unknown. Chinese society had a tradition of the rich become victims during the terminal phase of the dynasty. So the rich is very well aware of this fact, and they hide. Do you know that Mr. Deng Xiaoping's son is astronomically rich, but you'll never see anywhere his net worth is published? Second, please give a citation... To engage this discussion is putting legitimacy on this ridiculous claim... > - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power Come on... This becomes ridiculous... Gender equality in China is pretty high. Ranked 38th out of 157 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China I mean it's not spectacular, but your statement is just outlandish... > - You are constantly subjugated to idiotic mass testing/lockdown What do you mean? I said a lot of bad words about CCP. I was not distant by my family or friends... > - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship If you read western media, then these are what they said. But these are not true according to what I hear from my friends and family.

by Aunche 5y ago

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> a Wumao For reference, the initial W doesn't represent a sound, so this would be "an wumao". (Same for Wuhan.)

bozhark 5y ago
frenchyatwork 5y ago
In English, Wuhan is typically pronounced with a "w" (/wuːhæn/ or /wuːhɑːn/), see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan.
- HKH2 5y ago
  In Mandarin, it's pronounced like the latter. You can definitely hear a 'w' sound.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > You can definitely hear a 'w' sound. Compare "han wudi de muzang" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9TeG6MdbmY#t=117 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9TeG6MdbmY#t=117 Or "wuhan de yi tian" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 Or "yi zuo shi da wuhan" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=66 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=66 (same video as above, earlier timestamp)
    - HKH2 5y ago
      You can argue it's not as strong as a 'w' in English, but it's definitely there, enough to justify saying 'a' instead of 'an'.
      - frenchyatwork 5y ago
        This is kind of complicated because [u] is a rounded vowel, so it's slightly "labialized" even if it's not preceded by [w]. Additionally, English spelling rules are complete insanity, and if an English speaker sees "uhan" they'd probably pronounce the 'u' as [ju:].
CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
The "w" sound is in the u, so unless you also write "an western movie" a wumao is correct.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  What are you talking about?
  - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
    Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > Pinyin w + ang is ∅ + uang. Either way there's a w sound in there. Correct. > Wuhan starts with the same (or at least something very similar and indistinguishable to me) semivowel as the English word west. Nope. This one is ∅ + u. You can listen to the name of Wuhan here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWw6emkxmos#t=82
      - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
        Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? Maybe it's not as clear as in the English word west, but you can't deny it's there no? Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you?
        thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > Yes I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there, don't you? No? > Don't 我 and 武 start with the same sound? You could make that argument. But 武 never transitions out of it. That transition is how you get a glide (or semivowel) as opposed to a vowel. 我 is /wo/, with a brief /w/. 武 is /u/, and that vowel persists through the entire syllable. If you wanted to call it /w/ instead of /u/, you'd have a syllable with an onset and no rime, and your /w/ would last much too long to be called a semivowel. > Do 窝 and 喔 sound the same to you? I can't really speak to this, but I'll assume by 喔 you mean something that is like 窝 without the w- onset. Something like 哦? They don't sound the same. This actually raises an interesting question... > I know how Wuhan sounds like and I clearly hear a w sound in there Am I right that you're a native Mandarin speaker? Mandarin doesn't distinguish between /wu/ and /u/, or at least no minimal pair exists that would prove the distinction is drawn. (Granted, the sequence /wu/ is not at all common in English, but we do have a minimal pair -- woo / ooh -- as long as you're willing to accept "ooh" as a word.) The lack of a distinction in Mandarin leaves the judgment of a Mandarin speaker open to question. seanmcdirmid mentioned 服务 - do you also clearly hear a W sound there?
abmrolp 5y ago
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Applying English rules to Chinese words is the ultimate folly. Also, it really depends on your dialect of Chinese, I always hear wu with a w (e.g. woo) if the wu is at the beginning of the word. Inside a word (like fuwuyuan), I usually don't hear or say it.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > Applying English rules to Chinese words is the ultimate folly. The more I think about this, the less I understand what you were trying to say. The first problem is of course that a(n) is an English word. But more than that, every sentence of English must apply the rules of English to every part of itself. If instead of "scare" we used the Chinese loanword xia, we would say things like "you xiaed me". We would not say "you xia me" with the past tense present but unmarked, nor would we say "you xiale me".
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > But more than that, every sentence of English must apply the rules of English to every part of itself. But it is undefined. English doesn't have strong dialects like Chinese does. Southerners are more likely not to pronounce the "w" in wu, so they might say "an wugui" (since they are more likely to say oogway like in Kungfu Panda) while a northerner will say "a wugui", since they are more familiar with saying the w sound. This is only if they are very familiar with English also, otherwise they will completely ignore the distinction between a and an. So...dialects make the question hard to answer.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > But it is undefined. English doesn't have strong dialects like Chinese does. The second part is a more interesting claim. But broadly speaking, for any two Chinese dialects you could probably identify two languages, one being a variety of English, that stand at a similar distance from each other. The second language might or might not be called "English"; it might be called Scots, or Dutch. Whether to pronounce a(n) with the /n/ realized is not undefined, but it is specific to the speaker. This is a case where variation within languages named "English" is more than enough to show disparities, as witness the confused Americans who copy the phrase "an historic occasion" from British usage. I took the position, in my original comment, that I was responding to someone who didn't speak Chinese (and therefore didn't know how to pronounce "wumao") but did speak English (and therefore did know how to pronounce "an"). I didn't think I was speaking to someone who knew the pronunciation of "wumao" but wasn't sure how to use an article with it. I don't think regional variation in pronunciation in China can explain an English speaker pronouncing wumao or Wuhan with an initial w-. The citation form of the syllable has no initial consonant, and all sources are explicit about this. Chinese broadcast media, in running speech, still doesn't produce anything an English speaker would recognize as an initial w-. (I'm having to rely, for this claim, on the television programs I found on youtube, linked elsewhere.) There just isn't a source that would provide an English speaker outside China with an example of using w-. So I assume what's happening is that people pronounce w- because they see the spelling. (Also, I don't see many English speakers pronouncing it Taivan instead of Taiwan.) I find it very plausible that regional variation exists, though, because I know the Shanghainese (吴 dialect) pronunciation of 勿 is -- using a pinyin-like spelling -- "ve" with an initial /v/-like sound.
commoner 5y ago
This isn't correct, because "an" is only used in front of words that begin with a vowel sound (in the dialect of English used). > The form an is used before words starting with a vowel sound, regardless of whether the word begins with a vowel letter. This avoids the glottal stop (momentary silent pause) that would otherwise be required between a and a following vowel sound. Where the next word begins with a consonant sound, a is used. Examples: a box; an apple; an SSO (pronounced "es-es-oh"); an MP3 (pronounced "em-pee-three"); a HEPA filter (here, HEPA is an acronym, a series of letters pronounced as a word rather than as individual letters); an hour (the h is silent); a one-armed bandit (pronounced "won..."); an heir (pronounced "air"); an herb in American English (where the h is silent), but a herb in British English; "a unionized worker" but "an ionized particle". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_articles#Distinction_between_a_and_an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_articles#Distinction_b... For example, "womb" starts with the same sound as "wumao", but we say "a womb" instead of "an womb". For the same reason, we say "a wumao" instead of "an wumao".
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > "an" is only used in front of words that begin with a vowel sound Yes, that's what I'm saying. > For example, "womb" starts with the same sound as "wumao" No, it doesn't. "Oops" starts with the same sound as "wumao". "Womb" has a /w/ sound before that. There is no /w/ in 五毛. What did you think I meant by saying "the initial W doesn't represent a sound"?
  - commoner 5y ago
    I don't think 五 ("wu", which means "five") is pronounced the same way as the "oo" in "oops", at least in Mandarin Chinese. I hear the "w" very clearly in this counting video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eLP3FuuEVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eLP3FuuEVs I think there is a lot of irony in this subthread, since it is responding to a comment about derailing the discussion by distracting from the main topic as a strategy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29655271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29655271. Intentional or not, this subthread shows just how effective this strategy can be.

throw10920 5y ago

> Before you use this as an excuse to accuse the commenter you disagree with as being a Wumao Well, most people generally shouldn't be doing that in the first place (it's against the HN guidelines in particular and bad form in general, with the exception of blatant repeated bad-faith low-effort posts). Even so, using "is this propaganda a distraction or direct engagement" as a heuristic for "is this post propaganda" is also not a great thing to do. Any large organization engaging in propaganda will have multiple large sub-orgs, stakeholders, and inconsistencies due to misaligned incentives, miscommunications, and the squishiness that comes along with propaganda.

Aunche 5y ago
>Well, most people generally shouldn't be doing that in the first place I'm mostly reminding them for when they post on Reddit, where I occasionally get accused for taking a Realpolitik stance of China issues. Even here, someone mentioned the pervasiveness of the "50 cent meme" as evidence of China's state sponsored propaganda. >Even so, using "is this propaganda a distraction or direct engagement" as a heuristic for "is this post propaganda" is also not a great thing to do. I agree it's not a perfect heuristic, but I don't think it matters in practice. A spammer is a spammer regardless of whether they're working for the CCP, and should be treated as such. There's no need to make a spicier accusation that you have no evidence for.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

chunghuaming 5y ago

Being a Chinese citizen right now means: - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) - You cannot go beyond China's intranet - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally - You have very little rights as LGBT - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power - You are constantly subjugated to random mass testing - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship 终究怀揣的不安，是愈来愈近的丧钟声

star-trek-fleet 5y ago
None of these can be attributed to authoritarian, or some form of CCP brutality, when moderate amount of scrutiny is applied ... > - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) This is of course because of China's CVOID policy, which is 0 tolerance. That's a rational decision of China's high-density population, and manufacturing-based economy. I do not think it's inherent anti-human-rights, as the death count is fractional to open-co-existence policy. Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one. > - You cannot go beyond China's intranet VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law. > - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks This is just not true... You can use various services to transfer money out. The only issue is that they are subject to certain limitations, which are far more restrictive than US. But again, US dominates world financial system, there is a view that financial imperialism is a key part of US capitalist exploiting Chinese workers. Thus the financial limitation. I doubt that anyone other than the rob-barrons are affected by this. I personally know a lot of Crypto super riches, trust me, they are absolutely a net negative force in society. > - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally You can. VPN to netflix. And a lot of pirated content. They were just not allowed to go through the official channel. Of course, CCP is wrong here. But let's not paint a picture that Chinese people are sheeps. > - You have very little rights as LGBT Not sure what you are talking about. LGBT is not discriminated officially in any form in the CHinese society. Society still holds stigma over these people. One primary reason is that these groups are associated with higher chance of sexually-transmitted diseases. And dont assume me a CCP associate, I have a good friend who is gay. He is my college friend. He is pretty happy. > - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat This is probably what forced upon by the private firms. These are punished heavily by CCP recently. Jack Ma and Alibaba are the defender of 996... > - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list This is not true. I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. None of the 50 people ever had any sign of being bothered. I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. If that's true, China either already have an AGI, or what we bought everyone are not actually made in China, because there are simply not enough cheap labor to produce them in the first place, and most of them are employed in watching others. > - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) 1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared... First, the number of billionaires are unknown. Chinese society had a tradition of the rich become victims during the terminal phase of the dynasty. So the rich is very well aware of this fact, and they hide. Do you know that Mr. Deng Xiaoping's son is astronomically rich, but you'll never see anywhere his net worth is published? Second, please give a citation... To engage this discussion is putting legitimacy on this ridiculous claim... > - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power Come on... This becomes ridiculous... Gender equality in China is pretty high. Ranked 38th out of 157 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China I mean it's not spectacular, but your statement is just outlandish... > - You are constantly subjugated to idiotic mass testing/lockdown What do you mean? I said a lot of bad words about CCP. I was not distant by my family or friends... > - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship If you read western media, then these are what they said. But these are not true according to what I hear from my friends and family.