5 ms·

So let's say I take the author's advice, 'always listen to ideas', and unlike the author, get told an awesome idea by a friend-of-a-friend with zero ability to

So let's say I take the author's advice, 'always listen to ideas', and unlike the author, get told an awesome idea by a friend-of-a-friend with zero ability to execute. Great, now what? Do I really set up a working relationship with this person, who's likely dead weight and valueless now that the idea's been revealed? Do I give him the ownership he thinks he deserves, which is a 50-50 split if I'm lucky? Do I just build it myself? I prefer to avoid such ethical quandaries, which is why I stick to my own ideas.

chriseidhof 15y ago
Right. This friend can (and does) execute.
- gyardley 15y ago
  Sorry about that - changing 'just like' to 'unlike'. Do you only listen to ideas from people that can execute? What would you do if you got an awesome idea from someone who couldn't?
muhfuhkuh 15y ago
If the idea is solid and fleshed out (bonus: On paper) and not just a one-liner like "it's My____ but for Chilean expats in Micronesia", then they deserve more than just "build it myself and then Winklevoss them". Maybe they can do balsamiq mocks of the interface, can run the incorporation/LLC paperwork gauntlet (if it's more than just an app), do beta testing, buy devices to test on, pay you a "solidarity" stipend, research, marketing, wrangle a QA or translation staff on Mechanical Turk. No one ever has "zero ability to execute". It can't just be about the coding.
- kaffeinecoma 15y ago
  I think there are plenty of people with less than zero ability to execute, i.e. a net negative contribution.
  - drzaiusapelord 15y ago
    "No, no. It needs a flash intro with music and dancing!"
  - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
    How are they "less than zero" if they gave you an idea that a) you would've never thought of yourself in any amount of brainstorming or b) was so insanely great that you jumped at the chance to actually do it. Would people who are passionate enough to really think things through with their idea contribute less than zero? I'm not talking about the fictional coked-out, fast talking movie exec with logline "business plans" that want 60% + a seat on the board. If you're talking with that kind of person, then of course you don't take it on.
    - esrauch 15y ago
      Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The vast majority of people who are aware of a single great idea probably either heard it from some other party or just got incredibly lucky. People who can consistently come up with good ideas are a tiny minority compared to the amount of people who are aware of a good idea.
    - kaffeinecoma 15y ago
      It's really easy to contribute negatively to a project. On the business end, I've worked with people who changed priority/direction/feature-sets so frequently that they actually made things worse; the project would have been better without them, hence a negative contribution. On the technical side, have you never worked with a programmer that insisted on introducing his favorite framework/language, or declared that the "current code sucks, it needs to be re-written"? That's potentially a negative contribution. Hell I've even been that guy. It's not only possible, it's common.
      - StavrosK 15y ago
        Sure, but if the person actually had the idea that created the entire venture, it can't really be negative unless their influence runs it to the ground and puts the company in debt, I guess.
- prawn 15y ago
  Yes, in a perfect world they could contribute those things but the chances of that being so are just too unlikely. If they could afford/justify any financial contribution, they'd probably just pay you to build it for them and have complete ownership. If you have a bit of a track record, you will get people looking to partner with you and coast on your experience - in 99% of cases, it won't be enough to carry their part of the bargain or even be anything but a distraction or pressure. Then there's the issue of feeling like you must persist with an idea you've lost faith in because they're still keen. Maybe you have countless other ideas to push that should be a greater priority, while this is their only bun in the oven.
kaffeinecoma 15y ago
I'm uncomfortable when people want to volunteer their ideas to me for exactly that reason. There's also usually an implicit question: how much will it cost you to build this for me? Rather than hearing someone's idea for an app I'd much prefer to hear about an existing, unsolved problem that they have. You know, an actual problem worth solving. Those tend to be the more fruitful variety of ideas, IMHO.
- aangjie 15y ago
  I had this friend who called up to talk about an idea. I listened for about 20-30 mins, made what i thought were meaningful questions, then asked him, i have an idea too and if he wants to listen? He said, he'll call back in an hour and was gone. I guess, he wanted me to execute the idea:-). Btw, am working on implementing that idea of mine, only it's going slower than i would like it to.
SandB0x 15y ago
This is why movie studios explicitly say they won't read your scripts and film suggestions if you send one in. They want to be able to make a film without the danger of being sued for stealing ideas.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- rayval 15y ago
  Yes, I think this is also the practice at game companies like Mattel and Hasbro. See the following excerpt from Mattel Website TOS at http://service.mattel.com/us/tandc.asp http://service.mattel.com/us/tandc.asp: As the world's largest toy company, Mattel employs a large staff of designers to develop new ideas.... Because of this... Mattel does not accept or consider any unsolicited ideas or materials for products or services, or even improvements to products or services, such as ideas, concepts, inventions, or designs for toys, games, videogames, books, scripts, screenplays..... Therefore, you must not send to Mattel.... any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials. Any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials you post on or send ... will be treated as non-confidential and non-proprietary User-Generated Content – regardless of whether you mark them "confidential", "proprietary", or the like. Mattel finds that many submissions that it receives... are already in the public domain; or are identical or substantially similar to products developed or in development by our own staff; or, for a host of many other reasons, are not novel or unique. So if, you send us any of your Unsolicited Ideas and Materials despite our request that you not do so, it's likely they're identical or substantially similar to ideas, concepts, and materials that, in the past, were developed by our staff or submitted to us by others.
- SomeCallMeTim 15y ago
  Most (all?) video game developers do the same: A disclosure that says "we have LOTS of ideas already, and your ideas may be similar, so we can't agree not to create anything that includes your ideas."
jarin 15y ago
You explain the situation to them, and ask them if they'd be ok with 5% for the idea, expanding to more if they take an active role and actually help execute the idea. If they're not OK with that, explain that it just isn't worth it to you. Ideas are a dime a dozen, it's not like that's the one and only Great Idea out there and it's certainly not worth ruining a friendship over.
- vegashacker 15y ago
  How would you actually go about giving them 5%? It seems very complicated. Presumably it's after Apple's cut. There are also expenses. Is it a handshake deal? Is there a legal document? Is it 5% for all time? What about tax considerations since the government may think you got 100%, instead of just 95%?
  - jarin 15y ago
    You can use something like http://foundrs.com/home http://foundrs.com/home just to lay down a basic agreement and work out the details later.
dangero 15y ago
Exactly. The other day I was hanging out with some relatives from out of town and my uncle dropped that famous line, "I have an idea for an app." I had been functioning under the same notion that I should always listen to people's ideas, so I listened. He then says, "I'll tell you, but if you build it I want 50%." I said, "Fine." In my mind I'm thinking, "No way I'm building this." Then he says, "OK, my idea is a contact management application for the iPhone. They have them for the PC, but they don't have them for the iPhone." That's it. That's his whole idea. That's when I realized I should stop listening to people's ideas about apps because he just basically told me that I can't build any contact management apps without giving him half the profits. If I listen to too many people's ideas, I won't be able to build something without being sued because someone else "gave me the idea".
- tricolon 15y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you should worry about one-time, private, un-recorded verbal agreements.
  - Turing_Machine 15y ago
    That might be true in the legal sense, but presumably he wants to maintain a good relationship with his uncle. :-)
- hexagonc 15y ago
  Was your relative asking for a percentage stake in the company or a percentage of the profits? In either case, what I would tell him is that his percentage will be in rough proportion to his overall contribution to the project. Lots of ideas are needed to design, create, market and sell an app. Why should his one idea be favored above the others? At best, one could weigh his idea in proportion to its usefulness toward the end-product. He thinks he contributed 50% to the end product but why that number? Why not 10%? In any case, I don't think he should be paid anything until you recoup your fixed development costs. What if the idea doesn't pan out? It seems to me that he wants the risk-free part of supplying the ideas but wants you to go through the trouble and expense of building it. Did he offer to pay you anything for the trouble? I think most people would love to spend their days just dreaming up ideas and getting paid for other people implementing them. Indeed, this is my big problem with software patents and patent trolls in particular.
jimbokun 15y ago
"Do I really set up a working relationship with this person, who's likely dead weight and valueless now that the idea's been revealed? Do I give him the ownership he thinks he deserves, which is a 50-50 split if I'm lucky? Do I just build it myself?" This is pretty much the plot of the Social Network.

chriseidhof 15y ago

Right. This friend can (and does) execute.

gyardley 15y ago
Sorry about that - changing 'just like' to 'unlike'. Do you only listen to ideas from people that can execute? What would you do if you got an awesome idea from someone who couldn't?

muhfuhkuh 15y ago

If the idea is solid and fleshed out (bonus: On paper) and not just a one-liner like "it's My____ but for Chilean expats in Micronesia", then they deserve more than just "build it myself and then Winklevoss them". Maybe they can do balsamiq mocks of the interface, can run the incorporation/LLC paperwork gauntlet (if it's more than just an app), do beta testing, buy devices to test on, pay you a "solidarity" stipend, research, marketing, wrangle a QA or translation staff on Mechanical Turk. No one ever has "zero ability to execute". It can't just be about the coding.

kaffeinecoma 15y ago
I think there are plenty of people with less than zero ability to execute, i.e. a net negative contribution.
- drzaiusapelord 15y ago
  "No, no. It needs a flash intro with music and dancing!"
- muhfuhkuh 15y ago
  How are they "less than zero" if they gave you an idea that a) you would've never thought of yourself in any amount of brainstorming or b) was so insanely great that you jumped at the chance to actually do it. Would people who are passionate enough to really think things through with their idea contribute less than zero? I'm not talking about the fictional coked-out, fast talking movie exec with logline "business plans" that want 60% + a seat on the board. If you're talking with that kind of person, then of course you don't take it on.
  - esrauch 15y ago
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The vast majority of people who are aware of a single great idea probably either heard it from some other party or just got incredibly lucky. People who can consistently come up with good ideas are a tiny minority compared to the amount of people who are aware of a good idea.
  - kaffeinecoma 15y ago
    It's really easy to contribute negatively to a project. On the business end, I've worked with people who changed priority/direction/feature-sets so frequently that they actually made things worse; the project would have been better without them, hence a negative contribution. On the technical side, have you never worked with a programmer that insisted on introducing his favorite framework/language, or declared that the "current code sucks, it needs to be re-written"? That's potentially a negative contribution. Hell I've even been that guy. It's not only possible, it's common.
    - StavrosK 15y ago
      Sure, but if the person actually had the idea that created the entire venture, it can't really be negative unless their influence runs it to the ground and puts the company in debt, I guess.
prawn 15y ago
Yes, in a perfect world they could contribute those things but the chances of that being so are just too unlikely. If they could afford/justify any financial contribution, they'd probably just pay you to build it for them and have complete ownership. If you have a bit of a track record, you will get people looking to partner with you and coast on your experience - in 99% of cases, it won't be enough to carry their part of the bargain or even be anything but a distraction or pressure. Then there's the issue of feeling like you must persist with an idea you've lost faith in because they're still keen. Maybe you have countless other ideas to push that should be a greater priority, while this is their only bun in the oven.

kaffeinecoma 15y ago

I'm uncomfortable when people want to volunteer their ideas to me for exactly that reason. There's also usually an implicit question: how much will it cost you to build this for me? Rather than hearing someone's idea for an app I'd much prefer to hear about an existing, unsolved problem that they have. You know, an actual problem worth solving. Those tend to be the more fruitful variety of ideas, IMHO.

aangjie 15y ago
I had this friend who called up to talk about an idea. I listened for about 20-30 mins, made what i thought were meaningful questions, then asked him, i have an idea too and if he wants to listen? He said, he'll call back in an hour and was gone. I guess, he wanted me to execute the idea:-). Btw, am working on implementing that idea of mine, only it's going slower than i would like it to.

SandB0x 15y ago

This is why movie studios explicitly say they won't read your scripts and film suggestions if you send one in. They want to be able to make a film without the danger of being sued for stealing ideas.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
rayval 15y ago
Yes, I think this is also the practice at game companies like Mattel and Hasbro. See the following excerpt from Mattel Website TOS at http://service.mattel.com/us/tandc.asp http://service.mattel.com/us/tandc.asp: As the world's largest toy company, Mattel employs a large staff of designers to develop new ideas.... Because of this... Mattel does not accept or consider any unsolicited ideas or materials for products or services, or even improvements to products or services, such as ideas, concepts, inventions, or designs for toys, games, videogames, books, scripts, screenplays..... Therefore, you must not send to Mattel.... any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials. Any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials you post on or send ... will be treated as non-confidential and non-proprietary User-Generated Content – regardless of whether you mark them "confidential", "proprietary", or the like. Mattel finds that many submissions that it receives... are already in the public domain; or are identical or substantially similar to products developed or in development by our own staff; or, for a host of many other reasons, are not novel or unique. So if, you send us any of your Unsolicited Ideas and Materials despite our request that you not do so, it's likely they're identical or substantially similar to ideas, concepts, and materials that, in the past, were developed by our staff or submitted to us by others.
SomeCallMeTim 15y ago
Most (all?) video game developers do the same: A disclosure that says "we have LOTS of ideas already, and your ideas may be similar, so we can't agree not to create anything that includes your ideas."

jarin 15y ago

You explain the situation to them, and ask them if they'd be ok with 5% for the idea, expanding to more if they take an active role and actually help execute the idea. If they're not OK with that, explain that it just isn't worth it to you. Ideas are a dime a dozen, it's not like that's the one and only Great Idea out there and it's certainly not worth ruining a friendship over.

vegashacker 15y ago
How would you actually go about giving them 5%? It seems very complicated. Presumably it's after Apple's cut. There are also expenses. Is it a handshake deal? Is there a legal document? Is it 5% for all time? What about tax considerations since the government may think you got 100%, instead of just 95%?
- jarin 15y ago
  You can use something like http://foundrs.com/home http://foundrs.com/home just to lay down a basic agreement and work out the details later.

dangero 15y ago

Exactly. The other day I was hanging out with some relatives from out of town and my uncle dropped that famous line, "I have an idea for an app." I had been functioning under the same notion that I should always listen to people's ideas, so I listened. He then says, "I'll tell you, but if you build it I want 50%." I said, "Fine." In my mind I'm thinking, "No way I'm building this." Then he says, "OK, my idea is a contact management application for the iPhone. They have them for the PC, but they don't have them for the iPhone." That's it. That's his whole idea. That's when I realized I should stop listening to people's ideas about apps because he just basically told me that I can't build any contact management apps without giving him half the profits. If I listen to too many people's ideas, I won't be able to build something without being sued because someone else "gave me the idea".

tricolon 15y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you should worry about one-time, private, un-recorded verbal agreements.
- Turing_Machine 15y ago
  That might be true in the legal sense, but presumably he wants to maintain a good relationship with his uncle. :-)
hexagonc 15y ago
Was your relative asking for a percentage stake in the company or a percentage of the profits? In either case, what I would tell him is that his percentage will be in rough proportion to his overall contribution to the project. Lots of ideas are needed to design, create, market and sell an app. Why should his one idea be favored above the others? At best, one could weigh his idea in proportion to its usefulness toward the end-product. He thinks he contributed 50% to the end product but why that number? Why not 10%? In any case, I don't think he should be paid anything until you recoup your fixed development costs. What if the idea doesn't pan out? It seems to me that he wants the risk-free part of supplying the ideas but wants you to go through the trouble and expense of building it. Did he offer to pay you anything for the trouble? I think most people would love to spend their days just dreaming up ideas and getting paid for other people implementing them. Indeed, this is my big problem with software patents and patent trolls in particular.

jimbokun 15y ago

"Do I really set up a working relationship with this person, who's likely dead weight and valueless now that the idea's been revealed? Do I give him the ownership he thinks he deserves, which is a 50-50 split if I'm lucky? Do I just build it myself?" This is pretty much the plot of the Social Network.