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You'd think this would be a wakeup call as to the value of limited government, but I'm not sure that's the message everyone is getting. Bureaucracies are gener

by cal5k 5y ago

You'd think this would be a wakeup call as to the value of limited government, but I'm not sure that's the message everyone is getting. Bureaucracies are generally incompetent in direct proportion to their size.

brnt 5y ago
> Bureaucracies are generally incompetent in direct proportion to their size. Or so a particular group of wealth owners would like to have us believe. Fortunately, not everyone is drinking this koolaid.
- frebord 5y ago
- e40 5y ago
  > Fortunately, not everyone is drinking this koolaid. This narrative has been pushed for many decades, since the 70's. I once saw a great post on reddit that gave tons of examples of government working. Really wish I saved that.
- cosmojg 5y ago
  I wouldn't mind if the government was slimmed down to being little more than the IRS, military, and a few regulatory bodies with either the current progressive tax system (better yet, that of the 70s) or a land value tax (at least 85%) with all of the proceeds redistributed equally among the population (i.e., UBI). Oh, and Pigovian taxes (e.g., carbon taxes). Lots and lots of Pigovian taxes. I don't think I needed to drink any koolaid to come upon this political stance, although I may have seen a cat or two.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    The super-rich don't need public health, public works, education, code enforcement and labour rights, but they do need a functioning military and property rights. And now we know the origin of the "nightwatch state" and why it's pushed so much by certain groups.
    - cosmojg 5y ago
      We definitely need a bit more than a night-watchman state. I should mention that I believe in the continued existence of public institutions, I just don't believe in their exclusivity. For example, I think the FDA should continue to exist. However, I would prefer it to be possible for pharmaceutical companies to align themselves with regulatory bodies other than the FDA so long as they made public their alignment. Then I, as the consumer, can choose whether I trust the FDA or its private competitor more, and buy my drugs accordingly. Simply put, I want a government which maximizes freedom, flexibility, and opportunity for as many people as possible.
- cal5k 5y ago
  Wealthy people generally have a pretty good handle on how to efficiently allocate capital. Unless it was inherited, most wealthy people alive today were not born that way. Government agencies and politicians have proven, by and large, to be incredibly inefficient allocators of capital. When the bloated arm of government expands into an area that's already well-served by markets, it impedes economic growth.
  - epgui 5y ago
    I’m pretty sure (but have no direct evidence at hand) that most wealth is either directly inherited, or indirectly inherited as a result of being born in a privileged setting.
lupire 5y ago
Are you suggesting that the Parks Department interferes with the CDC?
pphysch 5y ago
This is only true if you believe in conspiracy theories that the PRC is 1) hiding millions of COVID-19 deaths and simultaneously 2) remained the only growing economy in 2020. Or you reject 2) and include the entire global economy in the conspiracy. Otherwise, the PRC (CCP = world's largest bureaucracy) has clearly had the most successful response to the pandemic due to its decisive measures, which goes against your conclusion that less governance is needed to effectively combat pandemics.
- Kinrany 5y ago
  Why is it a conspiracy theory? Is it that they wouldn't want to fake the numbers, or is it that they couldn't?
  - pphysch 5y ago
    It's a theory that there's a broad conspiracy to cover up how bad the pandemic hit China. This would require many parties (millions of people inside and out of China) to closely conspire on a singular manufactured narrative and prevent any leaks of the "truth". It's a textbook conspiracy theory.
    - jgod 5y ago
      Yeah people never work in secrecy (or in the open) together and lie due to common interests. Especially millions of people. It would be impossible to coordinate them! - Signed, Santa Claus, coming to deliver presents to children worldwide soon.
      - epgui 5y ago
        It’s a cute answer, but the difference is that there is more credible evidence that Santa Claus doesn’t exist than that he does.
    - epgui 5y ago
      This is a good example of how the anti-China rhetoric presents with a blind spot for the West (I am a westerner). Rather than learning from what they did right, folks in my country just shrug and say “you can’t trust their stats”. That may be so, and sure, there may have been a large number of specific problems and areas for improvement, but there’s no universe in which China did not display strong overall competency. You can see that even if you take most official figures with a grain of salt.
afpx 5y ago
Have there been large, complex states that didn't have large bureaucracies?
- brnaftr186 5y ago
  Are "complex" states necessarily a good thing? Are large states? Additionally, consider no evidence of presence is not evidence of impossibility. This era has given mankind the license to self-organize on a totally unprecedented scale.

by cal5k 5y ago

brnt 5y ago

> Bureaucracies are generally incompetent in direct proportion to their size. Or so a particular group of wealth owners would like to have us believe. Fortunately, not everyone is drinking this koolaid.

frebord 5y ago
e40 5y ago
> Fortunately, not everyone is drinking this koolaid. This narrative has been pushed for many decades, since the 70's. I once saw a great post on reddit that gave tons of examples of government working. Really wish I saved that.
cosmojg 5y ago
I wouldn't mind if the government was slimmed down to being little more than the IRS, military, and a few regulatory bodies with either the current progressive tax system (better yet, that of the 70s) or a land value tax (at least 85%) with all of the proceeds redistributed equally among the population (i.e., UBI). Oh, and Pigovian taxes (e.g., carbon taxes). Lots and lots of Pigovian taxes. I don't think I needed to drink any koolaid to come upon this political stance, although I may have seen a cat or two.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  The super-rich don't need public health, public works, education, code enforcement and labour rights, but they do need a functioning military and property rights. And now we know the origin of the "nightwatch state" and why it's pushed so much by certain groups.
  - cosmojg 5y ago
    We definitely need a bit more than a night-watchman state. I should mention that I believe in the continued existence of public institutions, I just don't believe in their exclusivity. For example, I think the FDA should continue to exist. However, I would prefer it to be possible for pharmaceutical companies to align themselves with regulatory bodies other than the FDA so long as they made public their alignment. Then I, as the consumer, can choose whether I trust the FDA or its private competitor more, and buy my drugs accordingly. Simply put, I want a government which maximizes freedom, flexibility, and opportunity for as many people as possible.
cal5k 5y ago
Wealthy people generally have a pretty good handle on how to efficiently allocate capital. Unless it was inherited, most wealthy people alive today were not born that way. Government agencies and politicians have proven, by and large, to be incredibly inefficient allocators of capital. When the bloated arm of government expands into an area that's already well-served by markets, it impedes economic growth.
- epgui 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure (but have no direct evidence at hand) that most wealth is either directly inherited, or indirectly inherited as a result of being born in a privileged setting.

lupire 5y ago

Are you suggesting that the Parks Department interferes with the CDC?

pphysch 5y ago

This is only true if you believe in conspiracy theories that the PRC is 1) hiding millions of COVID-19 deaths and simultaneously 2) remained the only growing economy in 2020. Or you reject 2) and include the entire global economy in the conspiracy. Otherwise, the PRC (CCP = world's largest bureaucracy) has clearly had the most successful response to the pandemic due to its decisive measures, which goes against your conclusion that less governance is needed to effectively combat pandemics.

Kinrany 5y ago
Why is it a conspiracy theory? Is it that they wouldn't want to fake the numbers, or is it that they couldn't?
- pphysch 5y ago
  It's a theory that there's a broad conspiracy to cover up how bad the pandemic hit China. This would require many parties (millions of people inside and out of China) to closely conspire on a singular manufactured narrative and prevent any leaks of the "truth". It's a textbook conspiracy theory.
  - jgod 5y ago
    Yeah people never work in secrecy (or in the open) together and lie due to common interests. Especially millions of people. It would be impossible to coordinate them! - Signed, Santa Claus, coming to deliver presents to children worldwide soon.
    - epgui 5y ago
      It’s a cute answer, but the difference is that there is more credible evidence that Santa Claus doesn’t exist than that he does.
  - epgui 5y ago
    This is a good example of how the anti-China rhetoric presents with a blind spot for the West (I am a westerner). Rather than learning from what they did right, folks in my country just shrug and say “you can’t trust their stats”. That may be so, and sure, there may have been a large number of specific problems and areas for improvement, but there’s no universe in which China did not display strong overall competency. You can see that even if you take most official figures with a grain of salt.

afpx 5y ago

Have there been large, complex states that didn't have large bureaucracies?

brnaftr186 5y ago
Are "complex" states necessarily a good thing? Are large states? Additionally, consider no evidence of presence is not evidence of impossibility. This era has given mankind the license to self-organize on a totally unprecedented scale.