11 ms·

"I've got an idea for an app"

299 points by chriseidhof 15y ago

5hoom 15y ago
Ah, this is amusingly true. I suppose the ubiquitous nature of smart phones gives the common person more exposure to software than ever before, therefore compelling some to pitch half baked app ideas ('how about an app like Facebook, but in 3D!'). You never know though, there might be some buried gold in some suggestions. You just need your stupid-crap filter set on high :)
- officemonkey 15y ago
  Even dumb ideas can have a germ of greatness, or send you down a path to greatness.
  - praptak 15y ago
    There's a technique for getting out of the state when you're out of ideas (writer's block & the like.) Generate a few purposefully silly or outlandish ideas and work from that.
mtrn 15y ago
Nice cliffhanger.
larelli 15y ago
Chris: Y U no tell the idea?
- albertzeyer 15y ago
  It's secret.
- chriseidhof 15y ago
  I would, but the guy asked me not to, and I respect that. I'm very open about my own ideas though ;).
  - swah 15y ago
    So you're going to develop it? Or him?
    - chriseidhof 15y ago
      Oh, I forgot to mention that. Yes, we're working on the roadmap now. It's going to be awesome!
      - dumbtwats 15y ago
        Let guess 50% share of the company for executing this brain dead idea.
- 0x12 15y ago
  I can't parse this.
  - rexreed 15y ago
    <message><to>Chris</to><from>larelli</from><re>http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2965141</re><message-topic>explain-lack-of-disclosure</message-topic></message&#62 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2965141</re>&#60...;
bhamnav 15y ago
At a risk of sounding horrible (I'm not), did you finish writing the article? I mean, if you don't listen to all ideas that people have to offer you, then you're bound to dismiss a good idea at some point.
- wingerlang 15y ago
  Maybe you did not finish reading it? ".. That’s when I decided: always listen to ideas .."
- chriseidhof 15y ago
  That's exactly the point.
CJefferson 15y ago
10 years or so ago, when I was a game programmer, I used to have the same "I've got an idea for a game" problems. Most ideas were useless, some were poorly thought out "Like X but Y", for example "Like Command and Conquer but set in space"; others were far too difficult to construct. Then, I was told an idea for a great puzzle game. I decided the idea was so great I made the originator of the idea my wife ;)
- shasta 15y ago
  Is she comfortable with the fact that it was primarily an IP acquisition?
  - boyter 15y ago
    I don't normally up-vote amusing comments but I really could not resist for this one. The most amusing comment I have read on hacker news so far and the only to really make me smile today. Thank you!
    - shasta 15y ago
      Thanks... I don't submit many longer posts since I've limited myself to checking news sites from my phone (for productivity reasons). So this one-liner generated about six months of Karma for me :)
  - 0x12 15y ago
    I'd class this as a talent acquisition, the IP was obviously secondary.
- ido 15y ago
  Which game was that? Was it successful?
  - CJefferson 15y ago
    It had a slight iPhone success. ~5,000 copies, never got very much publicity despite an average review of about 4.5, now taken down I'm afraid. I'm currently playing around doing a HTML (DOM, not 5) version. Unfortunately I don't have as much time as I'd like to play with such things on the side. Everyone who has played it agrees it's fun.
wallflower 15y ago
The best answer I give is an honest one. "I'm too busy with contracts, and I have a number of my own ideas that I'd love to be working on.[1]" This answer brings up the commonly echoed sentiment among my mobile developer cohort of the tradeoff between client contracts and your own product work. One is easier, one pays off long term. [1] This does not necessarily mean for profit. See http://rawsyntax.com/post/5982784556/importance-of-side-projects http://rawsyntax.com/post/5982784556/importance-of-side-proj...
michael_dorfman 15y ago
I get the same kind of thing, but not aimed at iPhone apps-- rather, start-up ideas. My approach is to first ask people who their customers will be, and how they plan on selling to them-- and then, if they get past that, I'll hear what the idea is.
nhangen 15y ago
I don't have a problem hearing from people with ideas, what I have a problem with is 9 out of 10 people fail to execute and as a result, waste my time. It seems that to many, having a business, or an app idea, is as far as it gets. As an entrepreneur, that bugs the hell out of me.
- ThomPete 15y ago
  Well since 9 out of 10 companies fail then what's the big deal? You think it's a bigger problem for you than it is for those who fail? I don't understand your point.
  - stanmancan 15y ago
    He's not referring to the fact that they try and fail, it's that they fail to TRY. I have the same problem as well. People are always excited and impatient to set up a meeting to talk about an "app/website idea" they're really serious about. I'll take the time to put them in my schedule, go meet them somewhere and listen to them talk for an hour or two, and thats as far as it ever gets. Everybody wants to talk about their idea, and most seem to think I should be willing to work for some equity. My last experience with this is fairly typical. A restaurant manager I worked with a couple years ago had "a brilliant idea". He was emailing and calling me constantly, refused to talk over the phone and was doing anything he could to get me into a meeting A.S.A.P. since he 'really wanted to get rolling on this'. I heard him out and quoted him $4,000. Never heard from him again. I tried calling once, left a voice mail, and attempted to follow up on two occasions via e-mail and nothing. And _that's_ what he's talking about. People that waste our time in meetings and don't ever follow through.
    - nhangen 15y ago
      This is exactly it. In fact, I was just talking with my partner last week about the fact that almost every time we get a potential client or lead that wants to meet or talk on the phone first, it almost always never turns into real work. On the contrary, our best clients rarely, if ever, request meetings or phone/face time. His idea was that to these "idea people," the meeting is a replacement for work. I'm not sure what I think, aside from the fact that I'm tired of wasting my time.
ristretto 15y ago
Blame "The Social Network" for portraying developers as so evil, sleazy arrogant pricks that everyone would want to be one.
chubs 15y ago
That was a hilarious twist in the end. I'm just like you except for the last paragraph... maybe i'll start listening to people's ideas again :)
peteretep 15y ago
I have an experience just like this. I was telling my (now) cofounder in glorious detail why his list of ideas sucked or required way too much work, and then one of them ... well actually, that one was pretty cool. Now we've built it!
gyardley 15y ago
So let's say I take the author's advice, 'always listen to ideas', and unlike the author, get told an awesome idea by a friend-of-a-friend with zero ability to execute. Great, now what? Do I really set up a working relationship with this person, who's likely dead weight and valueless now that the idea's been revealed? Do I give him the ownership he thinks he deserves, which is a 50-50 split if I'm lucky? Do I just build it myself? I prefer to avoid such ethical quandaries, which is why I stick to my own ideas.
- chriseidhof 15y ago
  Right. This friend can (and does) execute.
  - gyardley 15y ago
    Sorry about that - changing 'just like' to 'unlike'. Do you only listen to ideas from people that can execute? What would you do if you got an awesome idea from someone who couldn't?
- muhfuhkuh 15y ago
  If the idea is solid and fleshed out (bonus: On paper) and not just a one-liner like "it's My____ but for Chilean expats in Micronesia", then they deserve more than just "build it myself and then Winklevoss them". Maybe they can do balsamiq mocks of the interface, can run the incorporation/LLC paperwork gauntlet (if it's more than just an app), do beta testing, buy devices to test on, pay you a "solidarity" stipend, research, marketing, wrangle a QA or translation staff on Mechanical Turk. No one ever has "zero ability to execute". It can't just be about the coding.
  - kaffeinecoma 15y ago
    I think there are plenty of people with less than zero ability to execute, i.e. a net negative contribution.
    - drzaiusapelord 15y ago
revorad 15y ago
a social network for sharing pictures of coffee Isn't that Instagram? So yeah, always listen to ideas :-)
- yakto 15y ago
  No, that'd be http://artinmycoffee.com/ http://artinmycoffee.com/ There are few niches still unexplored. :)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
frankiewarren 15y ago
Just out of curiosity, what would you advise these people who have ideas, but aren't technically proficient, to do? Is there a correct way to approach someone? Should they prepare something before talking to you to show they are serious (maybe a short write up, or a sketch)?
- patio11 15y ago
  Should they prepare something before talking to you to show they are serious Checks, letters of intent from customers who they've sold the pre-extant system to +, customer lists, etc. Sketches are nice, too. I prefer charcoal as a medium and dragons as a subject. A good sketch makes a great complement to a check or LOI. + Happens all the time. Really.
  - frankiewarren 15y ago
    Haha... I will say "mock up" from now on. Thanks! (My dragon would probably end up looking like a fire breathing cow anyway) Great advice about securing customers first. If you can't do that it's probably not worth either of your time.
    - patio11 15y ago
      I wasn't poking fun at your word choice, don't worry. I'm just sort of skeptical that product-related process documents actually add any value. Money? Customers? These are things I don't have enough of. Documents? Any idiot can write documents. Many do.
    - chubs 15y ago
      If you were approaching me, a dozen 'letter of intents' as described above would certainly grab my attention. It proves 3 things: * You're serious * You're a good salesman * There's a market for your idea
- damoncali 15y ago
  Yes. The number one, guaranteed way to get a developer's attention is to go and sell your idea. Literally. Sell the would-be product to someone and get a contract. Sure, that contract will be full of outs for the buyer, but it's still a contract. Getting to this point is a lot of work. It means you will have thought things through. It means you will have talked to your customers. It means you probably have mocked something up. You have probably invested a small amount of cash. But mostly it means someone will pay for it which elevates your idea from "nope - waste of time unless you give me $20k" to "ok, we may have something here". If you want to pay market rates (cash), I'd say show up with a mockup. If you want to convince a developer to join you for equity, show up with a sale.
robjohnson 15y ago
Good advice indeed. The process of analyzing ideas itself is implicitly difficult so, at the very least, it's nice to have an opportunity to hone that skill.
chaostheory 15y ago
I like saying a variant of what the author says: “I probably won’t have time to build it, but I can help you learn how to implement it yourself.” Sadly so far no one has taken up my offer. I can't help but feel that it's never I can't do it, but it's more like I can't be bothered with it.
meskyanichi 15y ago
I always get this tiring feeling when someone comes up to me to talk about an idea. Especially if it's one of these "fast talking" kind of people. Most of them involve some kind of "social X". Even more saddening is how the people that have these "ideas", have no clue how to market it, where profit comes from, and so forth. I believe that the only time I've heard of a decent or good idea was from fellow programmers or designers, rather than "business men" or founders of small companies and claim they know it all. Then after they explain their idea, they expect you to invest 90% of your time on the product, promise you a certain ownership percentage (usually ~10%?), rather than paying a good salary up-front; so if it flops they didn't lose any of their time or had to invest any amount of cash. I believe something similar to this happened to some dude who then open-sourced the project. I forgot what project that was, it happened recently. You can of course listen to anyone's idea, but as the article stated, the chance that it's not another dumb or over-done idea is usually very slim.
- ido 15y ago
  Especially if it's one of these "fast talking" kind of people. Most of them involve some kind of "social X". Remember when it used to be "eCommerce X"?
  - meskyanichi 15y ago
    Ha, and what'll be next..? Well, I guess I'm also quite thankful in a way that noobs like that don't actually get good idea's in the first place, although it can be quite annoying.
    - frankiewarren 15y ago
      "Local X"
      - SimHacker 15y ago
        "Casual (se)X"
chrislomax 15y ago
I know this is not directly related but being a web developer I generally get something similar. I get the old "Oh we should meet up sometime, my brother is looking for a website". And they think they are doing me a favour when they offer me £100 to do them a site. To quote one, "I'll bung you £100 to do it". Thanks, I get paid that a day.
- kaffeinecoma 15y ago
  And as a bonus, you get to be on the hook for maintaining that site until the owner gets bored with it, making whatever changes they want (for free).
  - skcin7 15y ago
    Yup, this has happened to me several times back in high school, when all the shitty bands used to approach me asking to make a website. At first I was like "yeah, cool!" and then they automatically expected me to update it consistently and do things like handle merchandise sales. LOL. Yeah right. Then they get mad at me for not maintaining it. I'm like "I made the thing, you update it". That was my lesson. I don't make websites anymore for people without charging thousands of dollars and an hourly fee for any future work.
    - chrislomax 15y ago
      I think every programmer in some respects goes through that, that's how we make mistakes and learn from them. I wouldn't be surprised if most developers actually did their first project for nothing at all, I think we all under value our skills to start with and it takes time to realise how much our skills are worth. That's what I find funny when you put a "real" bill into do a site and you see the owners face, if their initial reaction is, "how much??!", I know it's time to go quoting for a different project.
  - chrislomax 15y ago
    I think people always expect you to be on a learning curve when creating sites, like they think they are doing you a favour by you building it for them as it's good experience for you. I don't know what it is with jobs where it is more of a service than labour but I feel we all get a bum rap, it's the same with SEO, I think people think it hardly takes any time at all. If I asked my friend, who is a joiner, to do some work for me, I can see the work being done and I can appreciate the time and effort gone into it, it's almost like people cannot appreciate the time projects take us. Don't get me wrong, I have put sites together in 16 hours from scratch but they are basic sites and I don't want to maintain them. They have been favour jobs or such like, it's not how I plan spending the rest of my life. I think the one thing I take from this story is that all people think their idea is unique or will always work. 99% of the time, the people have done no research into competition or if they have they have not evaluated the competition well enough. It's good when you do get a good idea but this does again come down to the execution, you have to be able to rely on your partner to do their fair share.
lukeredpath 15y ago
"I've got an idea for an app", almost inevitably followed by..."I don't have any funding but I can offer a great equity deal".
- jen_h 15y ago
  Or, "It's sure to make millions of dollars, but the idea is so revolutionary and so top secret that I can't tell you anything about it until you agree to do all the work." Oy.
cbs 15y ago
Acting condescending towards people who don't understand my field for not understanding my field could be counter productive? Yeah, this is a no-brainier. The anti-"idea guy" attitude was all ego, no logic. I can't say I'm surprised that it took off as well as it did, it felt good and matched the reality that most ideas suck so it was easy to adopt. I'm not surprised, but a disappointed that more people didn't recognize it for what it was. Oh well, being the only guy hearing the good ideas was fun while it lasted.
celalo 15y ago
There is no value in ideas. It is always about hardworking with intelligent sense. Ideas are like seeds. You can grow a Giant Sequoia out of it. But if you don't know how you can not even grow a bean bud.
- onemoreact 15y ago
  There are still a tiny fraction of vary good ideas that are worth something. Pagerank is a classic example where the idea was clearly worth something the problem is even great ideas tend to be worth less than 5% of the company after a year or so. The hard part is sticking to your guns and actually telling your 'friend' that sounds like a good idea. You can pay me X/hour to build and market it or I can build it and hand over 5% of the profits it's up to you.
megablast 15y ago
I got an email the other day, from a young kid wanting me to sign a NDA, so I could quote him on his idea. I suggested he look at programming himself, and he did not take it well. I did explain to him that signing an NDA would be a disservice to me, if I was working on a similar idea, but he did not see the problem with that.
rexreed 15y ago
This is the same philosophy I take with regards to meetings. I'd gladly take a coffee, lunch, or other meeting with anyone who is interested because you never know what may come out of it. Sure, sometimes I'm busy, but there's always time for lunch and coffee. Take meetings, have conversations, let 1,000 flowers bloom or whatever the relevant expression is. But I also state in advance that our conversation is not subject to any non-disclosure agreement, and I explain that we are both free to do with the information whatever we like. If they're not comfortable with that, I explain that the purpose of the meetings is to see what mutual value we can bring each other. That's enough to screen the random meetings.
silverbax88 15y ago
I've found that the fastest way to get people to stop telling you their ideas (that they want you to build), is start telling them exactly how THEY could accomplish it. Them: "I've got this awesome idea for software that tracks traffic jams!" Me: "Sure, you just need to link up existing maps and satellite imagery from Google to traffic cameras...." Them: "Uh..." Me: "Of course, you have to be able to monetize the massive amount of data you'll be moving around, so you need to consider how people will be accessing this? Would it be through a GPS device, or is it a smartphone app, or is this just for commercial (TV stations, police, DOT) applications?" Them: "Uh...I also had an idea for this other thing..."
- dpcan 15y ago
  This could work :) I usually say, let's search the app store for your idea ... Just to see what comes up. 12 pages of the same idea later... Moving on to other conversations.
  - crenshaw 15y ago
    I've had that experience myself. Not only the same ideas pop up, but literally the exact same app name I had in mind.
  - perssontm 15y ago
    Thats a great suggestion, I usually listens for some time and ask a few from my point of view meaningful questions. I usually finish off by asking them to send me an email and summarize their thoughts and to explain it in more detail. Most of the times, the email never lands in my inbox, but when it finally does, theres usually something to it.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- jashmenn 15y ago
  You're right, this will be a fast way to get people to stop telling you their ideas. But if you're trying to shut people up then you've missed the OP's point. You can easily make normal people feel like their idea is worthless and you have mountains of business acumen that, obviously, they must lack. Do this enough times and what you'll find, just like you'd hoped, people stop telling you their ideas. I'd argue that every time you do this you are shutting down opportunities to collaboratively create ideas that would probably work. Part of being "lucky" is increasing your exposure to failures [1]. When someone approaches you with an idea, you've certainly got a better feel for what will "work" more than you're average person. Consider taking the time to give feedback, help shape it, brainstorm with it. You might find that between the two of you what you create is bigger than what either one could come up with individually. This applies in all areas of personal relationships, not just iPhone games. [1] "To increase your chance of success, double your failure rate" - attributed to Tom Watson
muyuu 15y ago
This is actually quite old already. It used to be "I have an idea for a website."
- SimHacker 15y ago
  I have an idea for an ARPANET mailing list about cats! (1980) I have an idea for a USENET newgroup about cats! (1985) I have an idea for an IRC channel about cats! (1989) I have an idea for an FTP site about cats pictures! (1990) I have an idea for a Gopher site about cat pictures! (1992) I have an idea for web page about cat pictures and stories! (1995) I have an idea for Java applet about cat animations! (1995) I have an idea for a Yahoo category about cat fans! (1996) I have an idea for a blog designed especially for publishing personal opinions about cats! (1998) I have an idea for an e-Commerce cat food distribution network! (1999) I have an idea for a virtual online currency for cats! (2000) I have an idea for a web scripting language for building feline sites! (2001) I have an idea for a Flash game about cats! (2002) I have an idea for a Content Management System for managing cats! (2002) I have an idea for a Object Relational Manager for storing information about cats! (2003) I have an idea for a social network for cats! (2004) I have an idea about a movie sharing site for cat videos! (2005) I have an idea for an iPhone app for taking pictures of cats! (2007) I have an idea for a iPad app for cats to use! (2010) ...How far we've come in 30 years...
craigmc 15y ago
The rule that "ideas are nothing, execution is everything" fails to properly acknowledge the class of ideas that come from genuine domain experts. In this situation (and presuming the idea does not require an absurd level of technical specialism and they can bring distribution to the party) then it can even end up being reversed.
bignoggins 15y ago
Chris, is your friend contributing anything else besides the idea? ie capital, programming, design, business contacts? If not then I hope you aren't considering a 50/50 split because that would be quite unfair to you.
- chriseidhof 15y ago
  He's doing pretty much everything (design, hardware, investments, marketing, packaging, and running the company). The app is brilliant and very simple.
  - bignoggins 15y ago
    hardware? this isn't looking like it's just an app =)
    - chriseidhof 15y ago
      Wish I could tell more!
jshort 15y ago
What is the best alternative to those who think they have a good idea for an app?
prpon 15y ago
In the circle that I move around, everyone wants an ecommerce store for their business that can generate sales even when they are sleeping. I tell them I am busy with my own stuff but I take time to meet and listen to them. After the meeting, I do research, put together a plan with the breakdown of costs for outsourcing development, marketing and the estimated revenue. That's when I stop hearing from them. They get either too busy or they realize that it's not as easy as they think. I am yet to find someone who followed up on the plan. Isn't life always like that? Many with plans but very few who act on them.
reso 15y ago
"I've got an idea for an app" is the new "Will you read my screenplay?"
gfrison 15y ago
yet another useless post
dumbtwats 15y ago
Im inclined to believe that the original opinion of this article that ideas are worthwhile and execution is important (agreed!) has NEVER been an opinion of yours, rather someone has tried to talk sense into you before you embark on slave labor executing this idea from an idea man, perhaps in exchange for 50% of nothing. Too fishy.. But hey it solves that little conflict that's going on in your head now..
RobertHubert 15y ago
I've been developing for a while, apps specifically for about 2 years and this is my take on things: Yes, I get many many people saying hey, I have this great idea... or hey, my friend wants to make an app... But here is where I think I may differ from others, I am these people too, everyday I wake up with ideas, I write them down and tell them to myself later, I test my own ideas on myself because I can, I know the industry and I know how to research ideas and more often than not, they are not worth my time. But that does not mean I stop thinking... So why shut out all the other ideas that people, sometimes strangers even, are just throwing at you all the time for free? These could be sources for great inspiration (probably not) but it only takes 1 good idea to make you realize that hey, these are people out in the world with different views, different problems, and different solutions. Its like having 100 brains waking up in the morning going hey write this down I think it could be a good idea. All that aside, here is what I do every time someone pitches an idea (no matter who they are and what the idea might be): 1) Listen 2) Think about it (is this unique, good, stupid, wait... don't I already have this app?) 3) Ask them some key questions, (how will it make money? How much time do you have every day to work on this? How much money can you spend on this project? Have you done any research on the idea? What other apps are there like this one?) 4) Pull out the iPhone and do a quick search for obvious app titles matching their idea and show them the results then ask, what about all these? Have you tested all of these? 5) Give them a 30 second lesson on using the internet and the app store to research their ideas. (nicely) 6) Give them my contact info if they don't already have it - even if the idea sucked (remember 90% of your ideas suck too) and why miss an opportunity to network. 7) If the idea sparks an interest, Say hey, Id like to see a layout of that sometime. Or if its really great set up a time for a call. 8) If it blows, don't worry, they will probably have forgotten about it a week later. 9) Congratulate yourself on not being an ass and realize that you helped someone, yourself, and the rest of the developers out there. They will be better prepared the next time they begin the "I have a great idea..." speech. This only takes 5 mins and you really never know what you might hear. Ideas are great because they make us think, they test us, they inspire us, and sometimes they can make us rich if can figure out how to use them well.
- cbs 15y ago
  This only takes 5 mins and you really never know what you might hear. Ideas are great because they make us think, they test us, they inspire us, and sometimes they can make us rich if can figure out how to use them well. I have to say I love your attitude towards ideas. I often have ideas for projects outside my wheelhouse (mostly personal projects) and talk to EEs and MEs about building stuff. It would suck if all my friends were archetypal hn-programmer-that-hates-idea-guys, I'd probably even drop them as friends. I'm so out of my depth on some things that I share it just to find out if its a completely stupid idea. Then again, I like building things for the sake of building them, and know people that do too.
napierzaza 15y ago
Most often peoples ideas pretty much require a server and a much more complicated pricing scheme than they think. When that's the case I explain that much, but you probably always loose when you do. One of the most awkward moments was when I actually met with a friend and his friend about making an app. I only realized halfway through that they didn't have an idea, just a wish to make an app. A few hours of awkwardly groping for some tenuous b2b projects and we parted company.
run4yourlives 15y ago
I was cringing until I got to the end to find that his advice was bang on. The fable of the Lion and the Mouse is something I need to constantly remind myself (and others) of.
- chriseidhof 15y ago
  That's exactly what I hoped to achieve, thanks for the kind words.
hess 15y ago
I've been on the flip side of the fence. I've had some ideas I was quite keen on, but then got them destroyed by experts in the field. When an expert like Chris tells you that you have a good idea, then you know you're onto something. P.S. Chris, if you still want to make those business cards, here's a link to 50 free business cards - http://efbuys.com/publishers/efactor/daily_deals/30088 http://efbuys.com/publishers/efactor/daily_deals/30088
brevityness 15y ago
I think this Cornell study fits in quite nicely with how you felt when people approached you with their idea for an app: http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Aug11/ILRCreativityBias.html http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Aug11/ILRCreativityBias....
huhtenberg 15y ago
> ... print some small cards with "No, I won’t listen to your app idea" > Dear Sir, Thank you for your proof of Fermat's Last Theorem. The first error is on page _____. This is said to be Hilbert or Landau. He had this printed on the cards and he would have an undergraduate to fill in the blank and mail it back to an author whenever a new proof of Fermat's Theorem was received :)
dumbtwats 15y ago
Im so surprised that this is getting so much attention. The only time you should listen if its something along these lines, obviously squeezed into one sentence so you dont get the opportunity to cut him off "I have this great idea (microsecond pause), im so confident that it work, (microsecond pause), that ive ['released US$50k equity loan from home','borrow $35k from brother','prepared to invest my liquid savings of 42k into it']." If it takes the turn of you do the development/impl and ill do the "sales, marketing, requirements, design, gathering investors, watering the plants" get him/her to quantify the success they had in each area and why they no capital to make a financial investment themselves (hint: most do via house equity but wouldnt dream of touching it - too risk (i.e. make your own mind up.)
stevenp 15y ago
The way I've learned to deal with this is that I listen enthusiastically, and then I ask the person with the idea to come back with sketches or something more concrete. That has, so far, eliminated 100% of the ideas outright. When someone really serious comes to me with a concrete idea, I'll know it, and then we'll talk for real. Asking the person with the idea to do a little work to make it real is a great way to determine how serious they really are.
swlkr 15y ago
I'm not really bothered by the "I've got an idea for an app" lines so much as I'm bothered by the fact that web apps are seen as websites. So when someone says "I've got an idea for a website" to me they think I'm just going to write some html and call it a day.
omarish 15y ago
A lot of this comes down to a) non-technical types pursuing their ideas with an unconstrained mental framework and b) non-linearity of good ideas. a) Unconstrained mental frameworks: "I want a location-based photo-sharing app that comes with angry birds integration" It can't be that hard. There has to be some plugin on github that solves that problem for you already, since it's a great idea." Since this idea is guaranteed to produce a billion dollars, any developer would have to be irrational to turn down even a 10% equity offer. b) Non-linearity of good ideas - I'm finding that it's often fewer features and fewer things that make compelling business ideas / user experiences. See Dan Ariley's TED talk [1]. It's intriguing how a negative feature delta (less is more!) often results in something more compelling. Understanding if something is a good idea is a problem more akin to finding the optimal way of loading an aircraft, where the problem has to be tested, exposed, and simulated; not a simple forecast model where the answer is binary. People will never know whether they're sitting on a great idea until they test their strategy and see how it turns out. On a side-note, a friend and I have a small service that attempts to solve this problem. It's called Casual Contracting [2] and tries to frame this problem in a positive light for both devs and idea people. [1] http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_o... [2] http://casualcontracting.com http://casualcontracting.com
detay 15y ago
Great point, and if I may say ideas are almost worthless. They're floating all over, they're everywhere. Bad ones, good ones, done ones... I believe what makes it worth is the execution, the effort of making an app running and selling. I believe `Angry Birds` is a good example of it. It's success did not come from the idea at all. A simple game with a good execution and good marketing made it so popular. Agreeing with the article; I just want to add that hearing people's ideas also put you into an awkward position. They give you responsibility of either not doing that application without that person's consent or sharing a revenue. You usually don't need neither, because as a developer you're already putting more mental work on how to come up with better apps than some friend's mother of yours. And hearing people like they invented the wheel all the time really is boring.
mindctrl 15y ago
"I subscribe to the belief that ideas aren’t worth anything, and that it all comes down to good execution." If not for the idea, the execution would be unnecessary. It takes a village...
pygorex 15y ago
I always listen to new ideas - even if I think the idea sucks initially, it's great to get my own creative juices flowing.
greggman 15y ago
The problem is you have an idea for a drink picture sharing app. Some guy tells you he's got an idea. you listen. He says "I want to make a coffee picture sharing app". You say, "lame idea". 2 months later you ship your "drink picture sharing app". You get sued. (hmm, sounds kind of like FB) That's why companies don't listen to ideas. This is especially true in games. Some guy comes and says "I've got an idea for game. It's going to have dragons in it". After that if you have any game that has dragons in it odds or not so low that the guy will consider suing you. Of course you can sign NDAs and other agreements but that's not so "nice" and not a guarantee you still won't get sued. Of course I hope for the best in your experiences. I'm just pointing out it's not just that devs think other ideas aren't worth listening to. There are other valid reason not to listen.
igorgue 15y ago
I like being tell "I've got an idea"... I feel flattered; Thing is, these people tell that to everyone of their friends, but only you! The computer nerd, is able to give them real criticism. Last time a girl saw me coding, and she told me: Are you programming? (I just nod) I find that amazing, I mean, you could do my job (marketing) and you understand it, I can't understand what you do, it's like magic. She apparently wants to build a fashion website, I asked two questions and she had no answer, I told her to get back to me when she gets a better idea of what she wants to build. Currently my cofounders are not technical, but they have the best ideas! And do the things I don't want to do :-).
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
vpdn 15y ago
I tend to listen to people's app ideas when their ideas revolve around their life or area of expertise. For the rest of us, it's easier to start as a competitor in a big market than to envision a latent need and build a product around it. If the app idea has not been implemented before, there's a high chance the founder is having the "invented here" hallucination. I'd try to find a place where the need is obvious and try to build the best product in that category instead of coming up with an ingenious new idea. I believe ideas are overrated (but vision matters). Steve Jobs take: "I want [Apple] to be much better, I don't care of being different." (Youtube: http://goo.gl/YPQJt http://goo.gl/YPQJt)
IAnsari 15y ago
There are few people that can give you an idea to make you fall off your chair, and it's worth listening to 10,000 bad ideas to find someone with one good idea that can be executed, without actually causing you to execute yourself in the process.
tommorris 15y ago
I was talking to a guy on the train once who was telling me he'd love to build an iPhone app (context: iPad early adopter, someone else was cooing over it or whatever). He was under the illusion that it was about as simple as creating a spreadsheet. I broke the bad news to him that creating an iPhone app was rather more complicated than that and required you to understand quite a difficult programming language (Objective-C) and a non-trivial framework (Cocoa, UIKit) and make a financial investment in a Mac and an Apple developer account. I kind of feel bad about it afterwards because it might be a good idea. I just don't think it's healthy when people think that writing software is easy or doesn't require skill and expertise... because they might get scammed in the same way as if they go around believing that investing in the stock market is guaranteed PROFIT!1!

299 points by chriseidhof 15y ago

5hoom 15y ago

Ah, this is amusingly true. I suppose the ubiquitous nature of smart phones gives the common person more exposure to software than ever before, therefore compelling some to pitch half baked app ideas ('how about an app like Facebook, but in 3D!'). You never know though, there might be some buried gold in some suggestions. You just need your stupid-crap filter set on high :)

officemonkey 15y ago
Even dumb ideas can have a germ of greatness, or send you down a path to greatness.
- praptak 15y ago
  There's a technique for getting out of the state when you're out of ideas (writer's block & the like.) Generate a few purposefully silly or outlandish ideas and work from that.

mtrn 15y ago

Nice cliffhanger.

larelli 15y ago

Chris: Y U no tell the idea?

albertzeyer 15y ago
It's secret.
chriseidhof 15y ago
I would, but the guy asked me not to, and I respect that. I'm very open about my own ideas though ;).
- swah 15y ago
  So you're going to develop it? Or him?
  - chriseidhof 15y ago
    Oh, I forgot to mention that. Yes, we're working on the roadmap now. It's going to be awesome!
    - dumbtwats 15y ago
      Let guess 50% share of the company for executing this brain dead idea.
0x12 15y ago
I can't parse this.
- rexreed 15y ago
  <message><to>Chris</to><from>larelli</from><re>http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2965141</re><message-topic>explain-lack-of-disclosure</message-topic></message&#62 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2965141</re>&#60...;

bhamnav 15y ago

At a risk of sounding horrible (I'm not), did you finish writing the article? I mean, if you don't listen to all ideas that people have to offer you, then you're bound to dismiss a good idea at some point.

wingerlang 15y ago
Maybe you did not finish reading it? ".. That’s when I decided: always listen to ideas .."
chriseidhof 15y ago
That's exactly the point.

CJefferson 15y ago

10 years or so ago, when I was a game programmer, I used to have the same "I've got an idea for a game" problems. Most ideas were useless, some were poorly thought out "Like X but Y", for example "Like Command and Conquer but set in space"; others were far too difficult to construct. Then, I was told an idea for a great puzzle game. I decided the idea was so great I made the originator of the idea my wife ;)

shasta 15y ago
Is she comfortable with the fact that it was primarily an IP acquisition?
- boyter 15y ago
  I don't normally up-vote amusing comments but I really could not resist for this one. The most amusing comment I have read on hacker news so far and the only to really make me smile today. Thank you!
  - shasta 15y ago
    Thanks... I don't submit many longer posts since I've limited myself to checking news sites from my phone (for productivity reasons). So this one-liner generated about six months of Karma for me :)
- 0x12 15y ago
  I'd class this as a talent acquisition, the IP was obviously secondary.
ido 15y ago
Which game was that? Was it successful?
- CJefferson 15y ago
  It had a slight iPhone success. ~5,000 copies, never got very much publicity despite an average review of about 4.5, now taken down I'm afraid. I'm currently playing around doing a HTML (DOM, not 5) version. Unfortunately I don't have as much time as I'd like to play with such things on the side. Everyone who has played it agrees it's fun.

wallflower 15y ago

The best answer I give is an honest one. "I'm too busy with contracts, and I have a number of my own ideas that I'd love to be working on.[1]" This answer brings up the commonly echoed sentiment among my mobile developer cohort of the tradeoff between client contracts and your own product work. One is easier, one pays off long term. [1] This does not necessarily mean for profit. See http://rawsyntax.com/post/5982784556/importance-of-side-projects http://rawsyntax.com/post/5982784556/importance-of-side-proj...

michael_dorfman 15y ago

I get the same kind of thing, but not aimed at iPhone apps-- rather, start-up ideas. My approach is to first ask people who their customers will be, and how they plan on selling to them-- and then, if they get past that, I'll hear what the idea is.

nhangen 15y ago

I don't have a problem hearing from people with ideas, what I have a problem with is 9 out of 10 people fail to execute and as a result, waste my time. It seems that to many, having a business, or an app idea, is as far as it gets. As an entrepreneur, that bugs the hell out of me.

ThomPete 15y ago
Well since 9 out of 10 companies fail then what's the big deal? You think it's a bigger problem for you than it is for those who fail? I don't understand your point.
- stanmancan 15y ago
  He's not referring to the fact that they try and fail, it's that they fail to TRY. I have the same problem as well. People are always excited and impatient to set up a meeting to talk about an "app/website idea" they're really serious about. I'll take the time to put them in my schedule, go meet them somewhere and listen to them talk for an hour or two, and thats as far as it ever gets. Everybody wants to talk about their idea, and most seem to think I should be willing to work for some equity. My last experience with this is fairly typical. A restaurant manager I worked with a couple years ago had "a brilliant idea". He was emailing and calling me constantly, refused to talk over the phone and was doing anything he could to get me into a meeting A.S.A.P. since he 'really wanted to get rolling on this'. I heard him out and quoted him $4,000. Never heard from him again. I tried calling once, left a voice mail, and attempted to follow up on two occasions via e-mail and nothing. And _that's_ what he's talking about. People that waste our time in meetings and don't ever follow through.
  - nhangen 15y ago
    This is exactly it. In fact, I was just talking with my partner last week about the fact that almost every time we get a potential client or lead that wants to meet or talk on the phone first, it almost always never turns into real work. On the contrary, our best clients rarely, if ever, request meetings or phone/face time. His idea was that to these "idea people," the meeting is a replacement for work. I'm not sure what I think, aside from the fact that I'm tired of wasting my time.

ristretto 15y ago

Blame "The Social Network" for portraying developers as so evil, sleazy arrogant pricks that everyone would want to be one.

chubs 15y ago

That was a hilarious twist in the end. I'm just like you except for the last paragraph... maybe i'll start listening to people's ideas again :)

peteretep 15y ago

I have an experience just like this. I was telling my (now) cofounder in glorious detail why his list of ideas sucked or required way too much work, and then one of them ... well actually, that one was pretty cool. Now we've built it!

gyardley 15y ago

So let's say I take the author's advice, 'always listen to ideas', and unlike the author, get told an awesome idea by a friend-of-a-friend with zero ability to execute. Great, now what? Do I really set up a working relationship with this person, who's likely dead weight and valueless now that the idea's been revealed? Do I give him the ownership he thinks he deserves, which is a 50-50 split if I'm lucky? Do I just build it myself? I prefer to avoid such ethical quandaries, which is why I stick to my own ideas.

chriseidhof 15y ago
Right. This friend can (and does) execute.
- gyardley 15y ago
  Sorry about that - changing 'just like' to 'unlike'. Do you only listen to ideas from people that can execute? What would you do if you got an awesome idea from someone who couldn't?
muhfuhkuh 15y ago
If the idea is solid and fleshed out (bonus: On paper) and not just a one-liner like "it's My____ but for Chilean expats in Micronesia", then they deserve more than just "build it myself and then Winklevoss them". Maybe they can do balsamiq mocks of the interface, can run the incorporation/LLC paperwork gauntlet (if it's more than just an app), do beta testing, buy devices to test on, pay you a "solidarity" stipend, research, marketing, wrangle a QA or translation staff on Mechanical Turk. No one ever has "zero ability to execute". It can't just be about the coding.
- kaffeinecoma 15y ago
  I think there are plenty of people with less than zero ability to execute, i.e. a net negative contribution.
  - drzaiusapelord 15y ago

revorad 15y ago

a social network for sharing pictures of coffee Isn't that Instagram? So yeah, always listen to ideas :-)

yakto 15y ago
No, that'd be http://artinmycoffee.com/ http://artinmycoffee.com/ There are few niches still unexplored. :)

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

frankiewarren 15y ago

Just out of curiosity, what would you advise these people who have ideas, but aren't technically proficient, to do? Is there a correct way to approach someone? Should they prepare something before talking to you to show they are serious (maybe a short write up, or a sketch)?

patio11 15y ago
Should they prepare something before talking to you to show they are serious Checks, letters of intent from customers who they've sold the pre-extant system to +, customer lists, etc. Sketches are nice, too. I prefer charcoal as a medium and dragons as a subject. A good sketch makes a great complement to a check or LOI. + Happens all the time. Really.
- frankiewarren 15y ago
  Haha... I will say "mock up" from now on. Thanks! (My dragon would probably end up looking like a fire breathing cow anyway) Great advice about securing customers first. If you can't do that it's probably not worth either of your time.
  - patio11 15y ago
    I wasn't poking fun at your word choice, don't worry. I'm just sort of skeptical that product-related process documents actually add any value. Money? Customers? These are things I don't have enough of. Documents? Any idiot can write documents. Many do.
  - chubs 15y ago
    If you were approaching me, a dozen 'letter of intents' as described above would certainly grab my attention. It proves 3 things: * You're serious * You're a good salesman * There's a market for your idea
damoncali 15y ago
Yes. The number one, guaranteed way to get a developer's attention is to go and sell your idea. Literally. Sell the would-be product to someone and get a contract. Sure, that contract will be full of outs for the buyer, but it's still a contract. Getting to this point is a lot of work. It means you will have thought things through. It means you will have talked to your customers. It means you probably have mocked something up. You have probably invested a small amount of cash. But mostly it means someone will pay for it which elevates your idea from "nope - waste of time unless you give me $20k" to "ok, we may have something here". If you want to pay market rates (cash), I'd say show up with a mockup. If you want to convince a developer to join you for equity, show up with a sale.

robjohnson 15y ago

Good advice indeed. The process of analyzing ideas itself is implicitly difficult so, at the very least, it's nice to have an opportunity to hone that skill.

chaostheory 15y ago

I like saying a variant of what the author says: “I probably won’t have time to build it, but I can help you learn how to implement it yourself.” Sadly so far no one has taken up my offer. I can't help but feel that it's never I can't do it, but it's more like I can't be bothered with it.

meskyanichi 15y ago

I always get this tiring feeling when someone comes up to me to talk about an idea. Especially if it's one of these "fast talking" kind of people. Most of them involve some kind of "social X". Even more saddening is how the people that have these "ideas", have no clue how to market it, where profit comes from, and so forth. I believe that the only time I've heard of a decent or good idea was from fellow programmers or designers, rather than "business men" or founders of small companies and claim they know it all. Then after they explain their idea, they expect you to invest 90% of your time on the product, promise you a certain ownership percentage (usually ~10%?), rather than paying a good salary up-front; so if it flops they didn't lose any of their time or had to invest any amount of cash. I believe something similar to this happened to some dude who then open-sourced the project. I forgot what project that was, it happened recently. You can of course listen to anyone's idea, but as the article stated, the chance that it's not another dumb or over-done idea is usually very slim.

ido 15y ago
Especially if it's one of these "fast talking" kind of people. Most of them involve some kind of "social X". Remember when it used to be "eCommerce X"?
- meskyanichi 15y ago
  Ha, and what'll be next..? Well, I guess I'm also quite thankful in a way that noobs like that don't actually get good idea's in the first place, although it can be quite annoying.
  - frankiewarren 15y ago
    "Local X"
    - SimHacker 15y ago
      "Casual (se)X"

chrislomax 15y ago

I know this is not directly related but being a web developer I generally get something similar. I get the old "Oh we should meet up sometime, my brother is looking for a website". And they think they are doing me a favour when they offer me £100 to do them a site. To quote one, "I'll bung you £100 to do it". Thanks, I get paid that a day.

kaffeinecoma 15y ago
And as a bonus, you get to be on the hook for maintaining that site until the owner gets bored with it, making whatever changes they want (for free).
- skcin7 15y ago
  Yup, this has happened to me several times back in high school, when all the shitty bands used to approach me asking to make a website. At first I was like "yeah, cool!" and then they automatically expected me to update it consistently and do things like handle merchandise sales. LOL. Yeah right. Then they get mad at me for not maintaining it. I'm like "I made the thing, you update it". That was my lesson. I don't make websites anymore for people without charging thousands of dollars and an hourly fee for any future work.
  - chrislomax 15y ago
    I think every programmer in some respects goes through that, that's how we make mistakes and learn from them. I wouldn't be surprised if most developers actually did their first project for nothing at all, I think we all under value our skills to start with and it takes time to realise how much our skills are worth. That's what I find funny when you put a "real" bill into do a site and you see the owners face, if their initial reaction is, "how much??!", I know it's time to go quoting for a different project.
- chrislomax 15y ago
  I think people always expect you to be on a learning curve when creating sites, like they think they are doing you a favour by you building it for them as it's good experience for you. I don't know what it is with jobs where it is more of a service than labour but I feel we all get a bum rap, it's the same with SEO, I think people think it hardly takes any time at all. If I asked my friend, who is a joiner, to do some work for me, I can see the work being done and I can appreciate the time and effort gone into it, it's almost like people cannot appreciate the time projects take us. Don't get me wrong, I have put sites together in 16 hours from scratch but they are basic sites and I don't want to maintain them. They have been favour jobs or such like, it's not how I plan spending the rest of my life. I think the one thing I take from this story is that all people think their idea is unique or will always work. 99% of the time, the people have done no research into competition or if they have they have not evaluated the competition well enough. It's good when you do get a good idea but this does again come down to the execution, you have to be able to rely on your partner to do their fair share.

lukeredpath 15y ago

"I've got an idea for an app", almost inevitably followed by..."I don't have any funding but I can offer a great equity deal".

jen_h 15y ago
Or, "It's sure to make millions of dollars, but the idea is so revolutionary and so top secret that I can't tell you anything about it until you agree to do all the work." Oy.

cbs 15y ago

Acting condescending towards people who don't understand my field for not understanding my field could be counter productive? Yeah, this is a no-brainier. The anti-"idea guy" attitude was all ego, no logic. I can't say I'm surprised that it took off as well as it did, it felt good and matched the reality that most ideas suck so it was easy to adopt. I'm not surprised, but a disappointed that more people didn't recognize it for what it was. Oh well, being the only guy hearing the good ideas was fun while it lasted.

celalo 15y ago

There is no value in ideas. It is always about hardworking with intelligent sense. Ideas are like seeds. You can grow a Giant Sequoia out of it. But if you don't know how you can not even grow a bean bud.

onemoreact 15y ago
There are still a tiny fraction of vary good ideas that are worth something. Pagerank is a classic example where the idea was clearly worth something the problem is even great ideas tend to be worth less than 5% of the company after a year or so. The hard part is sticking to your guns and actually telling your 'friend' that sounds like a good idea. You can pay me X/hour to build and market it or I can build it and hand over 5% of the profits it's up to you.

megablast 15y ago

I got an email the other day, from a young kid wanting me to sign a NDA, so I could quote him on his idea. I suggested he look at programming himself, and he did not take it well. I did explain to him that signing an NDA would be a disservice to me, if I was working on a similar idea, but he did not see the problem with that.

rexreed 15y ago

This is the same philosophy I take with regards to meetings. I'd gladly take a coffee, lunch, or other meeting with anyone who is interested because you never know what may come out of it. Sure, sometimes I'm busy, but there's always time for lunch and coffee. Take meetings, have conversations, let 1,000 flowers bloom or whatever the relevant expression is. But I also state in advance that our conversation is not subject to any non-disclosure agreement, and I explain that we are both free to do with the information whatever we like. If they're not comfortable with that, I explain that the purpose of the meetings is to see what mutual value we can bring each other. That's enough to screen the random meetings.

silverbax88 15y ago

I've found that the fastest way to get people to stop telling you their ideas (that they want you to build), is start telling them exactly how THEY could accomplish it. Them: "I've got this awesome idea for software that tracks traffic jams!" Me: "Sure, you just need to link up existing maps and satellite imagery from Google to traffic cameras...." Them: "Uh..." Me: "Of course, you have to be able to monetize the massive amount of data you'll be moving around, so you need to consider how people will be accessing this? Would it be through a GPS device, or is it a smartphone app, or is this just for commercial (TV stations, police, DOT) applications?" Them: "Uh...I also had an idea for this other thing..."

dpcan 15y ago
This could work :) I usually say, let's search the app store for your idea ... Just to see what comes up. 12 pages of the same idea later... Moving on to other conversations.
- crenshaw 15y ago
  I've had that experience myself. Not only the same ideas pop up, but literally the exact same app name I had in mind.
- perssontm 15y ago
  Thats a great suggestion, I usually listens for some time and ask a few from my point of view meaningful questions. I usually finish off by asking them to send me an email and summarize their thoughts and to explain it in more detail. Most of the times, the email never lands in my inbox, but when it finally does, theres usually something to it.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
jashmenn 15y ago
You're right, this will be a fast way to get people to stop telling you their ideas. But if you're trying to shut people up then you've missed the OP's point. You can easily make normal people feel like their idea is worthless and you have mountains of business acumen that, obviously, they must lack. Do this enough times and what you'll find, just like you'd hoped, people stop telling you their ideas. I'd argue that every time you do this you are shutting down opportunities to collaboratively create ideas that would probably work. Part of being "lucky" is increasing your exposure to failures [1]. When someone approaches you with an idea, you've certainly got a better feel for what will "work" more than you're average person. Consider taking the time to give feedback, help shape it, brainstorm with it. You might find that between the two of you what you create is bigger than what either one could come up with individually. This applies in all areas of personal relationships, not just iPhone games. [1] "To increase your chance of success, double your failure rate" - attributed to Tom Watson

muyuu 15y ago

This is actually quite old already. It used to be "I have an idea for a website."

SimHacker 15y ago
I have an idea for an ARPANET mailing list about cats! (1980) I have an idea for a USENET newgroup about cats! (1985) I have an idea for an IRC channel about cats! (1989) I have an idea for an FTP site about cats pictures! (1990) I have an idea for a Gopher site about cat pictures! (1992) I have an idea for web page about cat pictures and stories! (1995) I have an idea for Java applet about cat animations! (1995) I have an idea for a Yahoo category about cat fans! (1996) I have an idea for a blog designed especially for publishing personal opinions about cats! (1998) I have an idea for an e-Commerce cat food distribution network! (1999) I have an idea for a virtual online currency for cats! (2000) I have an idea for a web scripting language for building feline sites! (2001) I have an idea for a Flash game about cats! (2002) I have an idea for a Content Management System for managing cats! (2002) I have an idea for a Object Relational Manager for storing information about cats! (2003) I have an idea for a social network for cats! (2004) I have an idea about a movie sharing site for cat videos! (2005) I have an idea for an iPhone app for taking pictures of cats! (2007) I have an idea for a iPad app for cats to use! (2010) ...How far we've come in 30 years...

craigmc 15y ago

The rule that "ideas are nothing, execution is everything" fails to properly acknowledge the class of ideas that come from genuine domain experts. In this situation (and presuming the idea does not require an absurd level of technical specialism and they can bring distribution to the party) then it can even end up being reversed.

bignoggins 15y ago

Chris, is your friend contributing anything else besides the idea? ie capital, programming, design, business contacts? If not then I hope you aren't considering a 50/50 split because that would be quite unfair to you.

chriseidhof 15y ago
He's doing pretty much everything (design, hardware, investments, marketing, packaging, and running the company). The app is brilliant and very simple.
- bignoggins 15y ago
  hardware? this isn't looking like it's just an app =)
  - chriseidhof 15y ago
    Wish I could tell more!

jshort 15y ago

What is the best alternative to those who think they have a good idea for an app?

prpon 15y ago

In the circle that I move around, everyone wants an ecommerce store for their business that can generate sales even when they are sleeping. I tell them I am busy with my own stuff but I take time to meet and listen to them. After the meeting, I do research, put together a plan with the breakdown of costs for outsourcing development, marketing and the estimated revenue. That's when I stop hearing from them. They get either too busy or they realize that it's not as easy as they think. I am yet to find someone who followed up on the plan. Isn't life always like that? Many with plans but very few who act on them.

reso 15y ago

"I've got an idea for an app" is the new "Will you read my screenplay?"

gfrison 15y ago

yet another useless post

dumbtwats 15y ago

Im inclined to believe that the original opinion of this article that ideas are worthwhile and execution is important (agreed!) has NEVER been an opinion of yours, rather someone has tried to talk sense into you before you embark on slave labor executing this idea from an idea man, perhaps in exchange for 50% of nothing. Too fishy.. But hey it solves that little conflict that's going on in your head now..

RobertHubert 15y ago

I've been developing for a while, apps specifically for about 2 years and this is my take on things: Yes, I get many many people saying hey, I have this great idea... or hey, my friend wants to make an app... But here is where I think I may differ from others, I am these people too, everyday I wake up with ideas, I write them down and tell them to myself later, I test my own ideas on myself because I can, I know the industry and I know how to research ideas and more often than not, they are not worth my time. But that does not mean I stop thinking... So why shut out all the other ideas that people, sometimes strangers even, are just throwing at you all the time for free? These could be sources for great inspiration (probably not) but it only takes 1 good idea to make you realize that hey, these are people out in the world with different views, different problems, and different solutions. Its like having 100 brains waking up in the morning going hey write this down I think it could be a good idea. All that aside, here is what I do every time someone pitches an idea (no matter who they are and what the idea might be): 1) Listen 2) Think about it (is this unique, good, stupid, wait... don't I already have this app?) 3) Ask them some key questions, (how will it make money? How much time do you have every day to work on this? How much money can you spend on this project? Have you done any research on the idea? What other apps are there like this one?) 4) Pull out the iPhone and do a quick search for obvious app titles matching their idea and show them the results then ask, what about all these? Have you tested all of these? 5) Give them a 30 second lesson on using the internet and the app store to research their ideas. (nicely) 6) Give them my contact info if they don't already have it - even if the idea sucked (remember 90% of your ideas suck too) and why miss an opportunity to network. 7) If the idea sparks an interest, Say hey, Id like to see a layout of that sometime. Or if its really great set up a time for a call. 8) If it blows, don't worry, they will probably have forgotten about it a week later. 9) Congratulate yourself on not being an ass and realize that you helped someone, yourself, and the rest of the developers out there. They will be better prepared the next time they begin the "I have a great idea..." speech. This only takes 5 mins and you really never know what you might hear. Ideas are great because they make us think, they test us, they inspire us, and sometimes they can make us rich if can figure out how to use them well.

cbs 15y ago
This only takes 5 mins and you really never know what you might hear. Ideas are great because they make us think, they test us, they inspire us, and sometimes they can make us rich if can figure out how to use them well. I have to say I love your attitude towards ideas. I often have ideas for projects outside my wheelhouse (mostly personal projects) and talk to EEs and MEs about building stuff. It would suck if all my friends were archetypal hn-programmer-that-hates-idea-guys, I'd probably even drop them as friends. I'm so out of my depth on some things that I share it just to find out if its a completely stupid idea. Then again, I like building things for the sake of building them, and know people that do too.

napierzaza 15y ago

Most often peoples ideas pretty much require a server and a much more complicated pricing scheme than they think. When that's the case I explain that much, but you probably always loose when you do. One of the most awkward moments was when I actually met with a friend and his friend about making an app. I only realized halfway through that they didn't have an idea, just a wish to make an app. A few hours of awkwardly groping for some tenuous b2b projects and we parted company.

run4yourlives 15y ago

I was cringing until I got to the end to find that his advice was bang on. The fable of the Lion and the Mouse is something I need to constantly remind myself (and others) of.

chriseidhof 15y ago
That's exactly what I hoped to achieve, thanks for the kind words.

hess 15y ago

I've been on the flip side of the fence. I've had some ideas I was quite keen on, but then got them destroyed by experts in the field. When an expert like Chris tells you that you have a good idea, then you know you're onto something. P.S. Chris, if you still want to make those business cards, here's a link to 50 free business cards - http://efbuys.com/publishers/efactor/daily_deals/30088 http://efbuys.com/publishers/efactor/daily_deals/30088

brevityness 15y ago

I think this Cornell study fits in quite nicely with how you felt when people approached you with their idea for an app: http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Aug11/ILRCreativityBias.html http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Aug11/ILRCreativityBias....

huhtenberg 15y ago

> ... print some small cards with "No, I won’t listen to your app idea" > Dear Sir, Thank you for your proof of Fermat's Last Theorem. The first error is on page _____. This is said to be Hilbert or Landau. He had this printed on the cards and he would have an undergraduate to fill in the blank and mail it back to an author whenever a new proof of Fermat's Theorem was received :)

dumbtwats 15y ago

Im so surprised that this is getting so much attention. The only time you should listen if its something along these lines, obviously squeezed into one sentence so you dont get the opportunity to cut him off "I have this great idea (microsecond pause), im so confident that it work, (microsecond pause), that ive ['released US$50k equity loan from home','borrow $35k from brother','prepared to invest my liquid savings of 42k into it']." If it takes the turn of you do the development/impl and ill do the "sales, marketing, requirements, design, gathering investors, watering the plants" get him/her to quantify the success they had in each area and why they no capital to make a financial investment themselves (hint: most do via house equity but wouldnt dream of touching it - too risk (i.e. make your own mind up.)

stevenp 15y ago

The way I've learned to deal with this is that I listen enthusiastically, and then I ask the person with the idea to come back with sketches or something more concrete. That has, so far, eliminated 100% of the ideas outright. When someone really serious comes to me with a concrete idea, I'll know it, and then we'll talk for real. Asking the person with the idea to do a little work to make it real is a great way to determine how serious they really are.

swlkr 15y ago

I'm not really bothered by the "I've got an idea for an app" lines so much as I'm bothered by the fact that web apps are seen as websites. So when someone says "I've got an idea for a website" to me they think I'm just going to write some html and call it a day.

omarish 15y ago

A lot of this comes down to a) non-technical types pursuing their ideas with an unconstrained mental framework and b) non-linearity of good ideas. a) Unconstrained mental frameworks: "I want a location-based photo-sharing app that comes with angry birds integration" It can't be that hard. There has to be some plugin on github that solves that problem for you already, since it's a great idea." Since this idea is guaranteed to produce a billion dollars, any developer would have to be irrational to turn down even a 10% equity offer. b) Non-linearity of good ideas - I'm finding that it's often fewer features and fewer things that make compelling business ideas / user experiences. See Dan Ariley's TED talk [1]. It's intriguing how a negative feature delta (less is more!) often results in something more compelling. Understanding if something is a good idea is a problem more akin to finding the optimal way of loading an aircraft, where the problem has to be tested, exposed, and simulated; not a simple forecast model where the answer is binary. People will never know whether they're sitting on a great idea until they test their strategy and see how it turns out. On a side-note, a friend and I have a small service that attempts to solve this problem. It's called Casual Contracting [2] and tries to frame this problem in a positive light for both devs and idea people. [1] http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_o... [2] http://casualcontracting.com http://casualcontracting.com

detay 15y ago

Great point, and if I may say ideas are almost worthless. They're floating all over, they're everywhere. Bad ones, good ones, done ones... I believe what makes it worth is the execution, the effort of making an app running and selling. I believe `Angry Birds` is a good example of it. It's success did not come from the idea at all. A simple game with a good execution and good marketing made it so popular. Agreeing with the article; I just want to add that hearing people's ideas also put you into an awkward position. They give you responsibility of either not doing that application without that person's consent or sharing a revenue. You usually don't need neither, because as a developer you're already putting more mental work on how to come up with better apps than some friend's mother of yours. And hearing people like they invented the wheel all the time really is boring.

mindctrl 15y ago

"I subscribe to the belief that ideas aren’t worth anything, and that it all comes down to good execution." If not for the idea, the execution would be unnecessary. It takes a village...

pygorex 15y ago

I always listen to new ideas - even if I think the idea sucks initially, it's great to get my own creative juices flowing.

greggman 15y ago

The problem is you have an idea for a drink picture sharing app. Some guy tells you he's got an idea. you listen. He says "I want to make a coffee picture sharing app". You say, "lame idea". 2 months later you ship your "drink picture sharing app". You get sued. (hmm, sounds kind of like FB) That's why companies don't listen to ideas. This is especially true in games. Some guy comes and says "I've got an idea for game. It's going to have dragons in it". After that if you have any game that has dragons in it odds or not so low that the guy will consider suing you. Of course you can sign NDAs and other agreements but that's not so "nice" and not a guarantee you still won't get sued. Of course I hope for the best in your experiences. I'm just pointing out it's not just that devs think other ideas aren't worth listening to. There are other valid reason not to listen.

igorgue 15y ago

I like being tell "I've got an idea"... I feel flattered; Thing is, these people tell that to everyone of their friends, but only you! The computer nerd, is able to give them real criticism. Last time a girl saw me coding, and she told me: Are you programming? (I just nod) I find that amazing, I mean, you could do my job (marketing) and you understand it, I can't understand what you do, it's like magic. She apparently wants to build a fashion website, I asked two questions and she had no answer, I told her to get back to me when she gets a better idea of what she wants to build. Currently my cofounders are not technical, but they have the best ideas! And do the things I don't want to do :-).

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vpdn 15y ago

I tend to listen to people's app ideas when their ideas revolve around their life or area of expertise. For the rest of us, it's easier to start as a competitor in a big market than to envision a latent need and build a product around it. If the app idea has not been implemented before, there's a high chance the founder is having the "invented here" hallucination. I'd try to find a place where the need is obvious and try to build the best product in that category instead of coming up with an ingenious new idea. I believe ideas are overrated (but vision matters). Steve Jobs take: "I want [Apple] to be much better, I don't care of being different." (Youtube: http://goo.gl/YPQJt http://goo.gl/YPQJt)

IAnsari 15y ago

There are few people that can give you an idea to make you fall off your chair, and it's worth listening to 10,000 bad ideas to find someone with one good idea that can be executed, without actually causing you to execute yourself in the process.

tommorris 15y ago

I was talking to a guy on the train once who was telling me he'd love to build an iPhone app (context: iPad early adopter, someone else was cooing over it or whatever). He was under the illusion that it was about as simple as creating a spreadsheet. I broke the bad news to him that creating an iPhone app was rather more complicated than that and required you to understand quite a difficult programming language (Objective-C) and a non-trivial framework (Cocoa, UIKit) and make a financial investment in a Mac and an Apple developer account. I kind of feel bad about it afterwards because it might be a good idea. I just don't think it's healthy when people think that writing software is easy or doesn't require skill and expertise... because they might get scammed in the same way as if they go around believing that investing in the stock market is guaranteed PROFIT!1!