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I grew up in affordable housing in Queens, went to school in Brooklyn and remain in the heart of NY S*tty. As of reading your asinine ridiculous comment I write

by arrakis2021 5y ago

I grew up in affordable housing in Queens, went to school in Brooklyn and remain in the heart of NY S*tty. As of reading your asinine ridiculous comment I write to you from Pomonok Houses. I invite you to come experience some “sheltered vacuum sealed lives” of the fine people here. Explain to them that they should rejoice in the wonders of economic austerity and defer their angst towards the gentrification demons of corporate America.

beepbooptheory 5y ago
I think, perhaps, we are not sharing the same definition of economic austerity, and that is causing confusion here? Regardless, I will clear myself up: people should be able to steal and shoplift as much as they want, there is no doubt in my mind that any shoplifter is the victim of far more injustice than anything they could ever accomplish themselves. Most people have it hard, and it's not their fault. It's a hard a world. People who are shocked and feel like it's a "problem" that people shoplift, seem to not really have this idea, and think society "just ten years ago" is better, which I guess we can respectfully disagree about. What can I really say? Are you really just that angry at every individual shoplifter, and nothing more?
- arrakis2021 5y ago
  “People should be able to steal and shoplift as much as they want.” If this is a troll account, 10/10
  - beepbooptheory 5y ago
    Ok, sorry to waste your time then.
    - dmz73 5y ago
      How about people should be able to murder as much as they want? Just because someone was a victim in the past or currently does not give them the right to victimize other people. There are social and economical injustices in America but destroying the physical businesses will not solve that, it will make it worse. Do you really think that the only way to resolve all these issues is to burn the whole place to the ground just so everyone can be equally worse off? Because that will not work either, there will still be people who will use that to their advantage so instead of having some middle class the country will end up with the de-facto feudal system of few rich lords with private armies and peasants fighting over leftover crumbs.
      - beepbooptheory 5y ago
        I just feel like once we begin talking about these things at the scale of trends or patterns, or as a crisis in the social order, what have you, we kinda naturally tend to treat them as symptoms. Its not this crime or that crime, its just social phenomenon. Like, an aberration in statistics or data for a doctor isn't the disease itself, because its just data, but a clue or symbol into a larger thing going on. (I'm not a physician). Now if you want to grant that view for a second, I think its rational, what are we left with to say? Is it a symptom of the forces of evil that exist, and must be kept at bay? I dont like that view! At some level, I just don't understand precisely where this anger is directed at, its always like people have someone in mind.. I think I'm radical only in the idea that if society is going to manifest symptoms, so be it. We are all doing what we can. I maybe know some ideas of how to fix some things, but that doesn't even need to be the point! I get that like everyone is angry at people who steal, I have been a victim of great theft in my life.. But I don't think its ultimately the evil of that person I am angry at, its the world where he is compelled to or not. And if he was just some low life scoundrel in an otherwise utopian society? Well I'd probably be angry for a bit, but it would be fine.
- klipklop 5y ago
  "I will clear myself up: people should be able to steal and shoplift as much as they want, there is no doubt in my mind that any shoplifter is the victim of far more injustice than anything they could ever accomplish themselves." This has to be a troll, right? I like how you assumed the person was privileged, got corrected and then doubled down like this. Clearly the folks doing the shop lifting are on the lower end of the economic spectrum. This does not give them the right to steal. Every society in history has had rules against theft. We want to live in a society where we don't have to bolt everything down to the ground and cover it in chains/fences. Not every store is a faceless evil mega corp. The small timers are getting hurt by these flash mob robberies as well. Small stores in Oakland are getting hit multiple times. I know somebody that sold shoes at a flea market. A very humble business. Somebody followed him home one night and stole his truck filled with $20k of shoes. This was a massive financial setback for him. Do you think the people that stole his truck has the right to take his livelihood away from him? Actually don't even bother answering....
  - beepbooptheory 5y ago
    When discussing these things, who are you angry at? Other than me now lol. Like even if the numbers that this article is calling into question were true, tell me what the precise crisis is? Is it simply, as you all seem to be implying, a moral crisis? Or is it a crisis or proper determents, of punishment? I'll grant you I'm crazy for this, but I simply dont understand this implicit worldview that the primary problem in these matters is so many different bad actors; the moral conceit that some people are just "bad" and will steal, they were born and/or raised that way, and the most we can hope for is to keep them at bay. I simply do not subscribe to that belief about people, I am not saying these things are free from injustices large and small. I just dont think its fruitful to think about it how you seem to be. We should try and put it all in the context it is happening in, not within trans-historical "society". I dont expect you to agree, or to make many friends, but at least I don't live in a world full of evil people without explanation, and the only thing to do is find them and punish them. Its a trade off.

beepbooptheory 5y ago

I think, perhaps, we are not sharing the same definition of economic austerity, and that is causing confusion here? Regardless, I will clear myself up: people should be able to steal and shoplift as much as they want, there is no doubt in my mind that any shoplifter is the victim of far more injustice than anything they could ever accomplish themselves. Most people have it hard, and it's not their fault. It's a hard a world. People who are shocked and feel like it's a "problem" that people shoplift, seem to not really have this idea, and think society "just ten years ago" is better, which I guess we can respectfully disagree about. What can I really say? Are you really just that angry at every individual shoplifter, and nothing more?

arrakis2021 5y ago
“People should be able to steal and shoplift as much as they want.” If this is a troll account, 10/10
- beepbooptheory 5y ago
  Ok, sorry to waste your time then.
  - dmz73 5y ago
    How about people should be able to murder as much as they want? Just because someone was a victim in the past or currently does not give them the right to victimize other people. There are social and economical injustices in America but destroying the physical businesses will not solve that, it will make it worse. Do you really think that the only way to resolve all these issues is to burn the whole place to the ground just so everyone can be equally worse off? Because that will not work either, there will still be people who will use that to their advantage so instead of having some middle class the country will end up with the de-facto feudal system of few rich lords with private armies and peasants fighting over leftover crumbs.
    - beepbooptheory 5y ago
      I just feel like once we begin talking about these things at the scale of trends or patterns, or as a crisis in the social order, what have you, we kinda naturally tend to treat them as symptoms. Its not this crime or that crime, its just social phenomenon. Like, an aberration in statistics or data for a doctor isn't the disease itself, because its just data, but a clue or symbol into a larger thing going on. (I'm not a physician). Now if you want to grant that view for a second, I think its rational, what are we left with to say? Is it a symptom of the forces of evil that exist, and must be kept at bay? I dont like that view! At some level, I just don't understand precisely where this anger is directed at, its always like people have someone in mind.. I think I'm radical only in the idea that if society is going to manifest symptoms, so be it. We are all doing what we can. I maybe know some ideas of how to fix some things, but that doesn't even need to be the point! I get that like everyone is angry at people who steal, I have been a victim of great theft in my life.. But I don't think its ultimately the evil of that person I am angry at, its the world where he is compelled to or not. And if he was just some low life scoundrel in an otherwise utopian society? Well I'd probably be angry for a bit, but it would be fine.
klipklop 5y ago
"I will clear myself up: people should be able to steal and shoplift as much as they want, there is no doubt in my mind that any shoplifter is the victim of far more injustice than anything they could ever accomplish themselves." This has to be a troll, right? I like how you assumed the person was privileged, got corrected and then doubled down like this. Clearly the folks doing the shop lifting are on the lower end of the economic spectrum. This does not give them the right to steal. Every society in history has had rules against theft. We want to live in a society where we don't have to bolt everything down to the ground and cover it in chains/fences. Not every store is a faceless evil mega corp. The small timers are getting hurt by these flash mob robberies as well. Small stores in Oakland are getting hit multiple times. I know somebody that sold shoes at a flea market. A very humble business. Somebody followed him home one night and stole his truck filled with $20k of shoes. This was a massive financial setback for him. Do you think the people that stole his truck has the right to take his livelihood away from him? Actually don't even bother answering....
- beepbooptheory 5y ago
  When discussing these things, who are you angry at? Other than me now lol. Like even if the numbers that this article is calling into question were true, tell me what the precise crisis is? Is it simply, as you all seem to be implying, a moral crisis? Or is it a crisis or proper determents, of punishment? I'll grant you I'm crazy for this, but I simply dont understand this implicit worldview that the primary problem in these matters is so many different bad actors; the moral conceit that some people are just "bad" and will steal, they were born and/or raised that way, and the most we can hope for is to keep them at bay. I simply do not subscribe to that belief about people, I am not saying these things are free from injustices large and small. I just dont think its fruitful to think about it how you seem to be. We should try and put it all in the context it is happening in, not within trans-historical "society". I dont expect you to agree, or to make many friends, but at least I don't live in a world full of evil people without explanation, and the only thing to do is find them and punish them. Its a trade off.