4 ms·

Yes. I currently work in this industry.

by dkonofalski 5y ago

thepasswordis 5y ago
And you've never met a VJ with an old macbook pro?
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  Of course I have. A VJ with an old Macbook Pro isn't someone for whom this dot makes the display "unusable". If it did, then they wouldn't be using it because they could also have notifications, OS alerts, security prompts, or anything else that shows up on a display come up during their performance.
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    Do Not Disturb/Focus is a thing.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      Not the same thing. Focus doesn't prevent the OS from generating windows or alerts on top of your display content.
      - ComputerGuru 5y ago
        You're not typically cloning your main screen but rather outputting to a second display (that doesn't have the focus). It would be very weird indeed for a notification to wind up on that display.
        dkonofalski 5y ago
        Weird but not impossible. The whole point here is that professionals who can't take that chance have always had to use a hardware I/O device because there is no other option.
        ComputerGuru 5y ago
        Perhaps professionals with a lot of money riding on it, sure. But for prosumers, the status quo was good enough that breaking it cannot be justified by "oh it wasn't perfect so who cares?"
        dkonofalski 5y ago
        That wasn't the status quo. The OS has always been able to display things on top of full-screen apps and apps cannot change that.
  - honkdaddy 5y ago
    There's a _massive_ difference between an unremovable and highly visible orange dot and the small chance that "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts etc." could pop up. I think it's undeniable that there's a contingent of people who play live video who will be negatively affected by this change and I'm surprised so many in this thread are implying that if they don't own a playback card, their experience doesn't matter.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      No one is saying their experience doesn't matter. Stop arguing straw men. All anyone is saying is that, if having the ability to control the output that's going to a display outside of the OS is a necessity, then you need a hardware controller. That has always been the case. The OS can always interfere with a full-screen app on a secondary display. The only reason there's any issue now is that these people disagree with this specific feature of the OS. It's not "unremovable". Just turn off whatever recording device is active and it'll go away. If you're a bit more tech savvy, turn off SIP and change it yourself or go to github and built the utility that already exists to get rid of it. All anyone in this thread is implying is that, if this is important to you, you need to have the hardware to do it. If Microsoft tomorrow decided to put a Windows logo in the corner of the screen just to say "fuck you", you would still be unaffected with a hardware I/O device.
      - honkdaddy 5y ago
        I'm not arguing a strawman, I'm arguing your preposition that because "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts" can also pop up, it's unreasonable for someone to complain about the recording indicator. They're entirely different animals and the fact you're comparing the two seems very uncharitable to me. > Just turn off whatever recording device is active It seems you haven't considered that the most obvious scenario someone would be annoyed about this is during a multimedia presentation when they're running both a video output and recording audio over top, an extremely common use-case that performers I personally know take part in. Suggesting this clearly non-technical individual to turn off SIP and compile and run some arbitrary code from Github is laughable to me.
  - nathancahill 5y ago
    Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfUeUCErCmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfUeUCErCmQ
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      A man after my own heart. That was awesome.
  - myself248 5y ago
    Airplane mode nearly prevents almost all the triggers that would cause such things to pop up. I thought this was standard VJ advice; turn on airplane mode before a performance. Doesn't fix the orange dot, but it helps pretty much everything else.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      >helps pretty much everything else Helps but doesn't solve. There is nothing that you can do to remove the OS's ability to put things on a secondary display outside of your control. The only option is to have a separate I/O controller.
  - radley 5y ago
    > because they could also have notifications, OS alerts, security prompts Most will be using HDMI out as a second screen, so those won't show up > Yes. I currently work in this industry What do you use for video output? I'm a hobbyist and used iPad & TouchViz with HDMI plug. I just picked up Resolume and planned to use a Mac Mini M1 w/ Monterey and HDMI out. I'm livestreaming, so I'm only doing 1080.
- Groxx 5y ago
  You meet professionals not taking professional precautions in every field. It doesn't mean they're in the right, it means they're playing fast and loose and hoping common stuff doesn't bite them and their clients.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    Yup! And that leads to situations just like this. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that people who depend on not being surprised by stuff like this prepare for stuff like this because it happens, in whatever form it takes.
    - Groxx 5y ago
      Yeah, I was seeing some of the tweets claiming that conferences had been cancelled over it and I can't help but think "good, maybe they'll learn to be more paranoid about critical projects". Though I assume it's 99% hyperbolic. To have this be a business blocker, they clearly not only don't have any other standard tools available to prevent this display issue, but they also upgraded their OS, can't roll back to an earlier backup (probably don't have backups), and did all this on the machine used for the presentations, without any alternatives. That's a shocking lack of care and they deserve to receive flack for it. You test that kind of thing well before the event, and then you do not touch anything. Least of all upgrading the OS. I can't help but assume that these people are just using their personal laptops and hoping for the best on the day of an event. If they are, a small orange dot is the least of their concerns, and serves as a nice canary to their employer.
      - dkonofalski 5y ago
        I feel so seen right now. Thank you for bringing some sense into this discussion.

Yes. I currently work in this industry.

thepasswordis 5y ago

And you've never met a VJ with an old macbook pro?

dkonofalski 5y ago
Of course I have. A VJ with an old Macbook Pro isn't someone for whom this dot makes the display "unusable". If it did, then they wouldn't be using it because they could also have notifications, OS alerts, security prompts, or anything else that shows up on a display come up during their performance.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  Do Not Disturb/Focus is a thing.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    Not the same thing. Focus doesn't prevent the OS from generating windows or alerts on top of your display content.
    - ComputerGuru 5y ago
      You're not typically cloning your main screen but rather outputting to a second display (that doesn't have the focus). It would be very weird indeed for a notification to wind up on that display.
      - dkonofalski 5y ago
        Weird but not impossible. The whole point here is that professionals who can't take that chance have always had to use a hardware I/O device because there is no other option.
        ComputerGuru 5y ago
        Perhaps professionals with a lot of money riding on it, sure. But for prosumers, the status quo was good enough that breaking it cannot be justified by "oh it wasn't perfect so who cares?"
        dkonofalski 5y ago
        That wasn't the status quo. The OS has always been able to display things on top of full-screen apps and apps cannot change that.
- honkdaddy 5y ago
  There's a _massive_ difference between an unremovable and highly visible orange dot and the small chance that "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts etc." could pop up. I think it's undeniable that there's a contingent of people who play live video who will be negatively affected by this change and I'm surprised so many in this thread are implying that if they don't own a playback card, their experience doesn't matter.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    No one is saying their experience doesn't matter. Stop arguing straw men. All anyone is saying is that, if having the ability to control the output that's going to a display outside of the OS is a necessity, then you need a hardware controller. That has always been the case. The OS can always interfere with a full-screen app on a secondary display. The only reason there's any issue now is that these people disagree with this specific feature of the OS. It's not "unremovable". Just turn off whatever recording device is active and it'll go away. If you're a bit more tech savvy, turn off SIP and change it yourself or go to github and built the utility that already exists to get rid of it. All anyone in this thread is implying is that, if this is important to you, you need to have the hardware to do it. If Microsoft tomorrow decided to put a Windows logo in the corner of the screen just to say "fuck you", you would still be unaffected with a hardware I/O device.
    - honkdaddy 5y ago
      I'm not arguing a strawman, I'm arguing your preposition that because "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts" can also pop up, it's unreasonable for someone to complain about the recording indicator. They're entirely different animals and the fact you're comparing the two seems very uncharitable to me. > Just turn off whatever recording device is active It seems you haven't considered that the most obvious scenario someone would be annoyed about this is during a multimedia presentation when they're running both a video output and recording audio over top, an extremely common use-case that performers I personally know take part in. Suggesting this clearly non-technical individual to turn off SIP and compile and run some arbitrary code from Github is laughable to me.
- nathancahill 5y ago
  Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfUeUCErCmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfUeUCErCmQ
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    A man after my own heart. That was awesome.
- myself248 5y ago
  Airplane mode nearly prevents almost all the triggers that would cause such things to pop up. I thought this was standard VJ advice; turn on airplane mode before a performance. Doesn't fix the orange dot, but it helps pretty much everything else.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    >helps pretty much everything else Helps but doesn't solve. There is nothing that you can do to remove the OS's ability to put things on a secondary display outside of your control. The only option is to have a separate I/O controller.
- radley 5y ago
  > because they could also have notifications, OS alerts, security prompts Most will be using HDMI out as a second screen, so those won't show up > Yes. I currently work in this industry What do you use for video output? I'm a hobbyist and used iPad & TouchViz with HDMI plug. I just picked up Resolume and planned to use a Mac Mini M1 w/ Monterey and HDMI out. I'm livestreaming, so I'm only doing 1080.
Groxx 5y ago
You meet professionals not taking professional precautions in every field. It doesn't mean they're in the right, it means they're playing fast and loose and hoping common stuff doesn't bite them and their clients.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  Yup! And that leads to situations just like this. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that people who depend on not being surprised by stuff like this prepare for stuff like this because it happens, in whatever form it takes.
  - Groxx 5y ago
    Yeah, I was seeing some of the tweets claiming that conferences had been cancelled over it and I can't help but think "good, maybe they'll learn to be more paranoid about critical projects". Though I assume it's 99% hyperbolic. To have this be a business blocker, they clearly not only don't have any other standard tools available to prevent this display issue, but they also upgraded their OS, can't roll back to an earlier backup (probably don't have backups), and did all this on the machine used for the presentations, without any alternatives. That's a shocking lack of care and they deserve to receive flack for it. You test that kind of thing well before the event, and then you do not touch anything. Least of all upgrading the OS. I can't help but assume that these people are just using their personal laptops and hoping for the best on the day of an event. If they are, a small orange dot is the least of their concerns, and serves as a nice canary to their employer.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      I feel so seen right now. Thank you for bringing some sense into this discussion.