6 ms·

The writing in this article is incredible and I have nothing but admiration for the author and her family. But, to me, this situation is what’s wrong with Amer

• HamburgerEmoji 5y ago
• arkis22 5y ago
  wait till you realize what's happening in the rest of the world. where people work much harder and still don't get by.
  • halfdan 5y ago
    That's classic whataboutism. That doesn't explain away why it's that bad in the US nor does it justify accepting the status quo.
  • smt88 5y ago
    "It's worse somewhere else" isn't relevant to whether it's acceptable in the US. The US has the resources to reward hard workers with financial stability. It also benefits from brain-draining other countries with this promise. If the US continues to slide away from the "American Dream," the brains and prosperity will end up somewhere else.
    • kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      So how much do you want to pay for bottle collecting? When you say "the US has the resources to reward hard workers", in this case you mean everybody who buys a bottle should pay more. Or how would you envision it to play out?
      • zeckalpha 5y ago
        Many places use a deposit system, where if you return the packaging for recycling, you get your money back. This cuts down on litter, at no cost to those who recycle.
        • deleted 5y ago
          [deleted]
        • kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
          But presumably, the higher the price for returning bottles, the less likely people will be to just dump them on the street, for the collectors to collect? Or it will become attractive for more collectors. In any case, it may not be so simple to raise their "wage" for collecting bottles.
          • zeckalpha 5y ago
            Many people will dump on the street (or in cans the collectors tend to) even if the deposit tripled.
      • smt88 5y ago
        We could easily turn bottle-collecting into a job with guaranteed hours and pay. Bottle-collecting is a poor example for the broader issue I was discussing. Those programs are intended for the (mostly homeless) poor to pick up trash they see instead of leaving it behind. It does what it's supposed to do.
    • jimbokun 5y ago
      > The US has the resources to reward hard workers with financial stability. Most hard workers in the U.S. are rewarded with financial stability. Not everyone, but enough that people still flock here from other countries where that's less true. > It also benefits from brain-draining other countries with this promise. Well gee, I guess the U.S. should stop being such a great place for immigrants, so talented people stop coming here and stay wherever they live now.
      • smt88 5y ago
        > Most hard workers in the U.S. are rewarded with financial stability. Not everyone, but enough that people still flock here from other countries where that's less true. You think restaurant workers are lazy? Factory workers? Amazon fulfillment workers? Why do people need two or three exhausting jobs to make a living? > Well gee, I guess the U.S. should stop being such a great place for immigrants, so talented people stop coming here and stay wherever they live now. I don't know what this means. Have the courage to say what you mean instead of using sarcasm. Whatever you mean, the US needs young workers to resolve our massive labor shortage and we need educated workers to be our next generation of scientists, doctors, engineers, and entrepreneurs.
        • jimbokun 5y ago
          > Why do people need two or three exhausting jobs to make a living? Most. Not all. The U.S. can still do better, but there needs to be some perspective on how the U.S. stacks up against the rest of the world. Better than most countries, not as good as some. > Whatever you mean, the US needs young workers to resolve our massive labor shortage and we need educated workers to be our next generation of scientists, doctors, engineers, and entrepreneurs. Brain drain sounded to me like the U.S. attracting those people is a bad thing, because those people should stay in their own countries. That's not what you meant to imply? We do need educated workers to fill the jobs you describe, but at the same time we probably send too many young people to college, many of whom would do better with solid technical skills training leading directly to jobs with far less debt.
          • 5y ago
  • bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    Or, if you take another section of the rest of the world wait till you realize what's happening in the rest of the world where people work less hard and don't have it that bad.
    • hunterb123 5y ago
      Then hopefully immigrants are also going there and enjoying that system, if it supports them, wherever it may be.
      • nopenopenopeno 5y ago
        FYI a great many immigrants were rich when they immigrated. A lot of rich people come to America because America offers so much opportunity to people who are already wealthy. Immigrants from overseas are especially likely to be wealthy. Indian-Americans are the wealthiest ethnic demographic in America simply because migrating from India pretty much requires being very wealthy to begin with.
        • hunterb123 5y ago
          Nothing I said indicated the immigrants were rich or poor, the majority are poor though. My point was if there's a nicer system than the US, immigrants will be flocking there too. Luckily we have numbers on the rates of which people immigrate to which countries, and the average wages of citizens of those countries. > Indian-Americans are the richest ethnic minority in America because migrating from India pretty much requires being wealthy. Plenty of lower class Indian immigrants pool their money for taxi medallions, convenient stores, hotels, trucks, etc. to get a business going. They integrate well and know how to climb the system. They send their children in as doctors later in generations. They don't always start rich, they work for it. > A lot of rich people come to America because America treats rich people so well, at the cost of treating poor people like dirt. See: tax rates. You'll find tax rates are better in the US than most other countries for lower income families. For businesses the US has only recently been competitive.
          • 5y ago
  • heavyset_go 5y ago
    > where people work much harder and still don't get by. This happens to a lot of people in the US, as well.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
• x0x0 5y ago
  You may find some books on the economic history of the US interesting. I suspect Jessica's parents immigrated and have very little formal education. Possible causes: trade liberalization means low skill workers in the US are competing with similar workers across the entire world. Simultaneously: 10th, 25th, and even median wages have barely moved in well over 20 years. Many of the jobs previously open to unskilled people willing to work very hard are no longer done in the US. A large shift of economic growth to capital over labor (which is, btw, the result of deliberate policy choices).
  • elil17 5y ago
    I think it’s important to consider how we got here, but I think it’s more important to consider what we can do about it. Many social policies could make life easier for people like Jessica and her family.
    • x0x0 5y ago
      I don't think you can think about what to do in any serious way without understanding how we got here. Including American attitudes towards the social policies you're likely thinking of.
• rootsudo 5y ago
  It's not a "problem" per se, it's unskilled, untrained labor and someone with no resources trying to make it. Not all hard work gets a reward. Not everyone has a happy ending. While statistically, you have a better chance of making a "high" salary in the USA, it really also depends on what you do and who you know. Picking up cans also sounds like they could be undocumented, with no "legal" work papers. Many times, it would/could be better for someone to stay in their "origin" country and live a regular life, but at the same time, you have to think - "would many people that have a network and a "career" leave everything they have, uproot their close family and go to another country, where even the language is different to pick up cans? Is that sacrafrice? Is it worth it? Is it even legal? (lols) As shown with "amiga" in the article - the authors parents also do not know English. The same happens with many "normal" Americans as well. The ones that are illiterate, have a poor network of friends, uneducated, etc. While we don't hear about it as often, it's pitted away as more depressing/their own fault because "they were born in the USA anyway." -- Nothing against the author, but it reads as poverty porn. Great she accepts herself, and isn't ashamed, and while we may all think she should wear it as a badge of honor - in reality, the more socially distanced you appear to your peers, the more you are. Pariah is pariah.
  • shortstuffsushi 5y ago
    I think the one bit you've not covered here is the children. While the parents likely will live a life of difficulty and work, their children become part of the American education pipeline that makes it quite likely they will be, if nothing else, integrated into society in a manner that will make their taking the next upward class step much easier. The parents are taking the hit to their livelihoods and careers to enable the next generation to be more successful. It's not a guarantee, but probably more upward mobility here.
  • snapetom 5y ago
    Your comment is a sobering economic reality of what it's like for immigrants, documented and undocumented, and even putting aside the huge cultural adjustments. We're biased in tech because we see H1-B visa holders living a comfortable life, even with lower wages. However, this is an outlier in current, and certainly prior, immigrant stories. Immigrating to a new country is downright hard. Many times it's unskilled, but also, at least in the Western countries, it's an issue of unrecognized skills that makes things difficult. My father had an EE degree and certifications from his home country, but the US, where we immigrated, didn't recognize them. He had to work in lower skilled jobs in electronics for years because of this. I remember going can scavenging with him to supplement household income. It was a decent way to put food on the table back in the early 80's.
• vxNsr 5y ago
  Likely bec they arrived through “unconventional” means and aren’t eligible to work.
• stjohnswarts 5y ago
  There aren't any poor people working hard just to get by in your country?