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> Vaccination is neither prevents infection nor spreading. Vaccines frequently prevent infection and spreading. (And yes, they do this by way of priming the im

> Vaccination is neither prevents infection nor spreading. Vaccines frequently prevent infection and spreading. (And yes, they do this by way of priming the immune system.) For example, we eradicated Small Pox with vaccines: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/788150/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/788150/ My understanding is that vaccines do reduce the chance of Covid spreading. But with the Omicron variant, they help a lot with preventing severe illness and only a little bit with helping reduce infectiousness. And Omicron is ridiculously infectious, so it's going to whip right through well-vaccinated areas just like everywhere else. But in general, reducing the chance that one person infects another is one of the primary purposes of vaccines.

withjive 5y ago
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- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  Most people, including governments, seem to be under the impression that the vaccines prevent spreading. It is the only rationale for vaccination mandates that are being rolled out all over the world.
  - EB-Barrington 5y ago
    "Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well for Delta with regard to severe illness and death - they prevent it, but what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission." CDC Director Rochelle Walensky
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      Interesting - is there a link that could be quoted? I think it would be interesting to many people. As I say, the belief is very widespread. For example this article shared by another commentator also says vaccinated people "seem less likely to pass it on to others": https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz...
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      She is specifically saying that people with breakthrough infections are infectious there, she isn't characterizing the overall impact of vaccination on transmission there. A vaccine that fails to totally prevent transmission can of course still be reducing transmission (and this is likely the case with COVID).
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    > Most people, including governments, seem to be under the impression that the vaccines prevent spreading. Indeed, but wrongly. "Sterilizing immunity" is a myth, even including historical vaccines [1]. > It is the only rationale for vaccination mandates that are being rolled out all over the world. Nope, the rationale behind the vaccination mandates is to prevent the medical system (or, in case of enough infections, society itself) from being overloaded. When the entire staff of a power plant, for example, catches Omicron shit gets really hairy really fast. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz...
    - blitzar 5y ago
      > Indeed, but wrongly. "Sterilizing immunity" is a myth, even including historical vaccines [1]. The near zero "Sterilizing immunity" should only come as a shock that it is so much lower than usual to medical professionals, especially for a virus which by basic observation over the last 2 years has a high proportion of asymptomatic carriers who infect a large number of people while being oblivious to their own infection. > Nope, the rationale behind the vaccination mandates is to prevent the medical system The rationale they offer is to make their pouplation immune to infection, and immune to passing on to 'vulnerable people who can not have the vaccine'. Assuming they believe what they say, they are idiots. In reality having the vaccine is not a selfless choice for all humanity, it is a choice entirely to benefit ones self induvidually. Your risk of death goes down dramatically should you become infected with covid. Hugging grandma doesnt become safer because you have had a vaccine, it becomes safer if they have.
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      The article in the Atlantic specifically mentions "people carry less of the virus, and seem less likely to pass it on to others." As for overwhelming hospitals, I don't understand why it wouldn't be sufficient to vaccinate the at risk population (old and obese people, for example).
- throwaway_4947 5y ago
  >Please stop spreading fake science based on "your understanding" I agree, it's deadly. So I hope you are just genuinely misinformed, because after 2 years I don't have the energy to engage in these discussions anymore. There's no studies for Omicron yet but according to the CDC and the studies they quote, the vaccines did prevent spreading for Alpha Beta and Delta variants. From the CDCs "Science Brief: COVID-19 Vaccines and Vaccination": https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... ... Studies from multiple countries found significantly reduced likelihood of transmission to household contacts from people infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were previously vaccinated for COVID-19.(171-176) ... However, other studies have shown a more rapid decline in viral RNA and culturable virus in fully vaccinated people (96, 177, 180-182). One study observed that Delta infection in fully vaccinated persons was associated with significantly less transmission to contacts than persons who were unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.(181) ... Together, these studies suggest that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta have potential to be less infectious than infected unvaccinated people. More studies are needed for Omicron but it's not fake science!
- bonzini 5y ago
  He wrote "reduce", not "prevent".
  - zerocount 5y ago
    No he didn't. The very first sentence is, "Vaccines frequently prevent infection and spreading."
    - iso1210 5y ago
      And thus infrequently do not prevent it infection and spreading. Taken as a whole that would be the same as saying 'reduce'. you read it as "Vaccines always prevent infection and spreading". Would you agree seatbelts frequently prevent deaths and major injuries?
- justinpombrio 5y ago
  > The NIH Link provided has no information regarding Covid Vaccines preventing the spread of Covid. You mean the one that's about Smallpox? No, I imagine the article about Smallpox that was written before the pandemic doesn't talk much about Covid.
raxxorrax 5y ago
The small pox vaccine isn't comparable to the Covid vaccine.

withjive 5y ago

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kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
Most people, including governments, seem to be under the impression that the vaccines prevent spreading. It is the only rationale for vaccination mandates that are being rolled out all over the world.
- EB-Barrington 5y ago
  "Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well for Delta with regard to severe illness and death - they prevent it, but what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission." CDC Director Rochelle Walensky
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    Interesting - is there a link that could be quoted? I think it would be interesting to many people. As I say, the belief is very widespread. For example this article shared by another commentator also says vaccinated people "seem less likely to pass it on to others": https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz...
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    She is specifically saying that people with breakthrough infections are infectious there, she isn't characterizing the overall impact of vaccination on transmission there. A vaccine that fails to totally prevent transmission can of course still be reducing transmission (and this is likely the case with COVID).
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > Most people, including governments, seem to be under the impression that the vaccines prevent spreading. Indeed, but wrongly. "Sterilizing immunity" is a myth, even including historical vaccines [1]. > It is the only rationale for vaccination mandates that are being rolled out all over the world. Nope, the rationale behind the vaccination mandates is to prevent the medical system (or, in case of enough infections, society itself) from being overloaded. When the entire staff of a power plant, for example, catches Omicron shit gets really hairy really fast. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz...
  - blitzar 5y ago
    > Indeed, but wrongly. "Sterilizing immunity" is a myth, even including historical vaccines [1]. The near zero "Sterilizing immunity" should only come as a shock that it is so much lower than usual to medical professionals, especially for a virus which by basic observation over the last 2 years has a high proportion of asymptomatic carriers who infect a large number of people while being oblivious to their own infection. > Nope, the rationale behind the vaccination mandates is to prevent the medical system The rationale they offer is to make their pouplation immune to infection, and immune to passing on to 'vulnerable people who can not have the vaccine'. Assuming they believe what they say, they are idiots. In reality having the vaccine is not a selfless choice for all humanity, it is a choice entirely to benefit ones self induvidually. Your risk of death goes down dramatically should you become infected with covid. Hugging grandma doesnt become safer because you have had a vaccine, it becomes safer if they have.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    The article in the Atlantic specifically mentions "people carry less of the virus, and seem less likely to pass it on to others." As for overwhelming hospitals, I don't understand why it wouldn't be sufficient to vaccinate the at risk population (old and obese people, for example).
throwaway_4947 5y ago
>Please stop spreading fake science based on "your understanding" I agree, it's deadly. So I hope you are just genuinely misinformed, because after 2 years I don't have the energy to engage in these discussions anymore. There's no studies for Omicron yet but according to the CDC and the studies they quote, the vaccines did prevent spreading for Alpha Beta and Delta variants. From the CDCs "Science Brief: COVID-19 Vaccines and Vaccination": https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... ... Studies from multiple countries found significantly reduced likelihood of transmission to household contacts from people infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were previously vaccinated for COVID-19.(171-176) ... However, other studies have shown a more rapid decline in viral RNA and culturable virus in fully vaccinated people (96, 177, 180-182). One study observed that Delta infection in fully vaccinated persons was associated with significantly less transmission to contacts than persons who were unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.(181) ... Together, these studies suggest that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta have potential to be less infectious than infected unvaccinated people. More studies are needed for Omicron but it's not fake science!
bonzini 5y ago
He wrote "reduce", not "prevent".
- zerocount 5y ago
  No he didn't. The very first sentence is, "Vaccines frequently prevent infection and spreading."
  - iso1210 5y ago
    And thus infrequently do not prevent it infection and spreading. Taken as a whole that would be the same as saying 'reduce'. you read it as "Vaccines always prevent infection and spreading". Would you agree seatbelts frequently prevent deaths and major injuries?
justinpombrio 5y ago
> The NIH Link provided has no information regarding Covid Vaccines preventing the spread of Covid. You mean the one that's about Smallpox? No, I imagine the article about Smallpox that was written before the pandemic doesn't talk much about Covid.

raxxorrax 5y ago

The small pox vaccine isn't comparable to the Covid vaccine.