8 ms·

He acts like his views are so nuanced that he can't be classified into a political bucket, yet like 90%+ are basically democratic party lines (pro abortion, pro

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• civilized 5y ago
  At a time when the country is cutting off its nose to spite its face -- e.g. making it so nobody can take Algebra "early" because it wouldn't be "equitable" -- should we be judging people based on whether they agree with us about abortion and the sexual revolution? Maybe a bigger tent coalition is needed to restore sanity on basic things, such as "kids should be allowed to learn so they can function in a technological society"?
  • crooked-v 5y ago
    Currently that bigger tent coalition is the Democrats, given that the only actual major Republican policy positions amount to "no abortion, lower taxes, and opposing whatever Democrats do".
    • civilized 5y ago
      Not really, given that Democrats control California 100% and attacks on early Algebra were the result. Neither major party is the coalition I'm talking about. It doesn't exist yet. But I can dream.
      • xxpor 5y ago
        It's more nuanced than that. America has the issue where there's 2 big tent parties, but there's a million little fiefdoms that are easily captured by radicals. Things like local school boards, where people just don't have the time and energy to pay attention to every detail. Last November, my ballot up here in Seattle had 25+ things to vote on. In California it's probably even worse. I get why the 2 party system evolved at the federal level, but there's no reason why we couldn't have more parties at the local level. That's exactly what happens in Canada, for example.
        • jamie_ca 5y ago
          Canadian - I haven't seen any evidence of party affiliation by candidates for City Council/School Board level, in either BC or Ontario.
          • xxpor 5y ago
            The current mayor of Vancouver is officially independent (although he was NDP while an MP), but the previous mayor was Vision Vancouver. Here's a list of the city counselors and their parties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_City_Council#2018%E2%80%93present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_City_Council#2018%E2...
        • civilized 5y ago
          I appreciate that, but massive, rich cities like San Francisco are crown jewels and bastions of Democratic power. Are we to believe that what happens in these cities is just the equivalent of some school board declaring pi = 3 in Podunk Nowhere? I think it's pretty representative of what the vanguard of the party wants. And it will continue to be unless the rank and file demand better.
          • xxpor 5y ago
            Ehhhhhhh I don't really agree with that. It represents what the people who care about that particular issue want. Saying it's the vanguard of the party, or that US parties can even have vanguards, is kind of silly. They're just too large and have a diversity of opinions.
      • zeruch 5y ago
        "Not really, given that Democrats control California 100% and attacks on early Algebra were the result" This is too absurd to even be a non-sequitur. And frankly, if Dems control this state "100%" then one has to ask why? Why has the GOP given up so much ground (remember, California has only sent two people to the nations highest office/POTUS, Nixon and Reagan, who were both Republicans. Historically a GOP that occupied up to 40+ percent of registered voters is now less than 25%, most of them going to Independent not Dem. This was in my lifetime, and I was GOP for a long time. They lost ground due to the Dems being the least stupid and unhinged of the two major parties. Not because the Dems are great, just less incoherent and insanely clownish assjockeys.
        • civilized 5y ago
          > This is too absurd to even be a non-sequitur. Hmm! Let's review the logic... 1. Insane things are happening to math education in California 2. Democrats control California 100% 3. Therefore, Democrats are causing the insane things in California 4. Therefore, Democrats are not always and everywhere the coalition to restore sanity, but sometimes make things more insane The logic seems pretty basic and sound to me. I suspect even children will be able to follow it, provided California Democrats allow them to take logic.
          • zeruch 5y ago
            1. maybe 2. see my previous answer 3. post hoc ergo propter hoc nonsense 4. "The logic seems pretty basic and sound to me" and to the rest of us who actually grasp logic, it's about as structurally sound as a dropped lasagna.
            • civilized 5y ago
              > 3. post hoc ergo propter hoc nonsense Ha ha ha. No. The CMF is a product of the CA DoE, an organization ultimately led by either elected officials (the state superintendent) or appointees of elected officials (the state board, appointed by the Governor). And since it's education in California, I don't even have to look to know that those leaders are 100% Democrats. Because Hell will freeze over before today's California lets anyone but a Democrat touch education policy. Nevertheless, I did confirm that the obvious is true with a couple Google searches. All CA School Board members were appointed by Democratic governors Brown or Newsom, and the superintendent has been a Democrat since the 90s, although the office is officially "nonpartisan" (whatever that means). Your unwillingness to follow a simple, obvious logical point doesn't make that point weak. It's uninteresting to have a "debate" with someone whose primary tactic is disingenuous ignorance in the service of protecting a favored in-group, so I'll stop here. Bye.
      • micromacrofoot 5y ago
        The algebra thing is way more complicated than “attacks on algebra” if you weren’t already aware. They’re talking about integrated math where students all learn the same concepts at the same time, but students that can handle more complex work still get it. Some math concepts will actually be introduced earlier than they were previously, and the curriculum is shifting to include more applied math like statistics rather than calculus being the end-all. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-21/why-california-math-plan-riling-up-parents-teachers?_amp=true https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-21/why-cali...
        • civilized 5y ago
          Not what I'm hearing. https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6146 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6146
          • micromacrofoot 5y ago
            Right that post is some acceptance, some feedback, and some concern… it’s not traipsing around the comments repeating the trollish phrase “attack on algebra”
            • civilized 5y ago
              I wonder why you've repeatedly misquoted me in a deceptive fashion? Very interesting behavior. Does that belong on Hacker News?
              • micromacrofoot 5y ago
                you said “attacks on early Algebra” the difference is immaterial to my point
                • civilized 5y ago
                  A bit late now, don't you think? Why don't you go edit your earlier misquotes and change the deceptive implications of the misquotes as well? I never claimed anyone was attacking "algebra", just the ability of all students to easily take it "early" (i.e. before high school), as has been traditionally allowed. Feel free to apologize and change my mind, but I have you flagged as a liar and the conversation will proceed accordingly.
    • jimbokun 5y ago
      That “big tent” is tearing itself apart, through introducing more and more stringent purity tests, judging people pariahs for views shared by majorities of Americans. As terrible as the Republicans are, some opinion polls are showing historic numbers of voters planning to vote Republican in the midterms, including a growing number of non white voters.
  • Ma8ee 5y ago
    Who says they can’t take algebra early?
    • mrslave 5y ago
      This was discussed recently: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29324551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29324551 (25 days ago)
      • lalaland1125 5y ago
        I think one issue is that we do need to introduce a new "slower math" framework for the majority of math students in California as most are not able to reach our current standards. Our current system is simply not working. The trick is to introduce that slower math framework while still keeping an option for some students take algebra earlier.
        • germinalphrase 5y ago
          What we need to do (in part) is accept that some students are not learning much in high school and offer them an off-ramp into the labor force. Right now, failing to earn a traditional high school diploma is half a step from an economic life sentence, so we force kids to fake their way through for years while they could instead be gaining knowledge and skills in a profession. Reducing the penalty of opting out would inarguably increase the quality of education for those who remain. Additionally, we should write in stone what obligations are truly school obligations and what are we offering as services/expectations within schools because they are one of the very few opportunities to provide social services to a large segment of our population. We would need to have a grown up conversation about other social spending, but teachers and admins are being pulled ten different directions by unclear mandates. We should also include an agreed upon optional exit exam that can be taken at any time so students who are capable of graduating and moving on with their lives are not being stifled. We would also (probably) benefit from decoupling schools and sports - even if some high school type equivalent remained publicly funded.
  • finite_jest 5y ago
    Practically speaking, it seems unlikely to me that a "big tent" coalition could be formed if some of the would-be occupants of the tent think of the others as the moral equivalent of the Taliban. [1] [1]: Shtetl-Optimized: Exciting opportunities at Kabul University! https://archive.ph/GhNGd https://archive.ph/GhNGd
    • noduerme 5y ago
      As an aside, I've been making a case for weeks at my local antifa bar that "youse" should be good enough for everybody, including they/them the bartender who's already 86'd me once for it
  • crocodiletears 5y ago
    Here's the obverse: The success of the radical equity crowd, and the parallel degeneration of American conservatism make good arguments for doing the opposite. The equitarians have stuck to their principals for decades, and through propaganda and persistence begun to execute on their goals with little compromise. They've shown that compromising with the opposition is for losers when you know what you want. Theirs is a model of political success. Don't compromise, even for harm reduction. Let them drag the useful idiots who gave them power down the self destructive path they're on, and wait for the reaction to achieve your own goals without compromise unless your offered a chance to achieve exactly what you want.
  • AndrewDucker 5y ago
    Abortion is a basic thing.
  • noduerme 5y ago
    Hey, sorry maybe I'm new to this thing you call internet rage, but yesterday was the first time I heard anything about algebra being cancelled and now it seems to be all the cool kids talk. Is that a real thing? Because last week I was at a redneck bar here in Oregon when a lady swore to me up and down that California had just legalized child abuse, and her husband literally had to look up the law to shut her up. The law was that judges would have discretion whether to put certain offenders on a permanent sex offender list - presumably to mitigate against 17 year olds being branded for life for consenting acts with other 17 year olds. Once the lady realized this applied to her 18 yo boy with a 16 yo girlfriend, she stopped talking about what she knew nothing about. In California if you want your kid to learn algebra... or basic communication skills... you send em to a private school or teach them at home. But I still don't buy this sudden terror of algebra being removed from school. Cite the source.
    • civilized 5y ago
      I want to emphasize that I said "making it so that nobody can take Algebra 'early'", i.e. California education bureaucrats are in the process, moving in that direction. They have not succeeded or completed the process. (In retrospect, I wish I had said "far fewer" rather than "nobody", as I cannot read their minds to determine if they are against anyone in California taking Algebra before 9th grade. However, the possible slight exaggeration does not affect the substance of the claim.) I insist upon the precise nature of my claim because its precision is what makes it correct. So many in these comments imply that the changes proposed in the California Mathematics Framework (CMF) are hopelessly "complex" and impossible to understand for the layman, and so therefore we should trust the experts and not attempt to make any factual statement whatsoever about what is in the CMF. This is encouraged by the CMF itself, which is 800 pages long and does everything in its power to deny that it is anything in particular, merely generally wonderful [1]. This is smokescreening, obscurantism, credentialism, and most of all elitism. I do not accept it. It is absurd and anti-citizen democracy to insinuate that ordinary citizens are incompetent to understand and opine on math curricula. All that said, please read this, and links therein: https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6146 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=6146 Select passages follow. Again, please follow the links in the original for details: > ...the CMF encourages schools to stop offering Algebra I in middle school, while placing obstacles (such as doubling-up, compressed courses, or outside-of-school private courses) in the way of those who want to take advanced math in higher grades. When similar reforms were implemented in San Francisco, they resulted in an “inequitable patchwork scheme” of workarounds that affluent students could access but that their less privileged counterparts could not. The CMF also promotes trendy and shallow courses (such as a nearly math-free version of “data science”) as recommended alternatives to foundational mathematical courses such as Algebra and Calculus. These courses do not prepare students even for careers in data science itself! > The CMF states that “many students, parents, and teachers encourage acceleration beginning in grade eight (or sooner) because of mistaken beliefs that Calculus is an important high school goal.” Students, parents, and teachers are not mistaken. Neither is the National Society of Black Engineers (NSBE), which set in 2015 a goal to double the number of African American students taking calculus by 2025. Calculus is not the only goal of K-12 math education, but it is important for students who wish to prepare for STEM in college and beyond. See also: [1] "Ra" -- the quality, embodied by the CMF, of aspiring to general wonderfulness while evading being pinned down with any specifics https://srconstantin.wordpress.com/2016/10/20/ra/ https://srconstantin.wordpress.com/2016/10/20/ra/ [2] The shoddy and sometimes outright fraudulent statistics supporting the CMF https://www.familiesforsanfrancisco.com/updates/inequity-in-numbers https://www.familiesforsanfrancisco.com/updates/inequity-in-...
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• ren_engineer 5y ago
  >covid response should have been even stricter and of even greater scope than it was always amazes me how one of the biggest criticisms of Trump is that he didn't take advantage of an emergency to seize more power. What would their reaction have been if he'd pulled a Xi and started welding people into their apartments in New York City at the start of the pandemic like China did in Wuhan? Or forced them to download a real time tracking app onto their phones for contact tracing? Surely that couldn't be abused at all
• swayvil 5y ago
  Maybe he's satirizing the popular view. And the popular attitude. Maybe he's being too subtle.
  • retrac 5y ago
    My take is that he's not satirizing. He's simply stating fairly mainstream and popular views. That we don't hear much about. The over-amplified fringe of both right and left contemporary identity and tribe-driven politics speak nothing to most people, who want intelligent and pragmatic solutions to real-world issues, not ideological dross and culture war issues. Most of us don't fit in the idiotic dichotomy given us. Even a typical liberal centrist/leftist is quite at odds with much of the orthodoxy out there. One can be a 2A zealot and a straight progressive ticket otherwise. Just as one can be a China hawk, anti-2A, and pro-LGBT. Just as one could be on the right and in favour of gun control. Not anymore. We are now all square pegs being forced into round holes. But for all we protest against orthodoxy, our voices seem to disappear. Thus howling into the wind.
• InTheArena 5y ago
  Recent studies before 2016 had shown that the Democratic voters have moved far more to the left then republican voters had moved to the right. As the author mentioned in this article - Trump as a backlash was easily predictable. These centrist positions are not the discourse that the modern democratic party is engaging in. Instead it is things like the California bill referenced, AOC's wealth tax, Bernie's litmus tests, and "modern monetary theory" and culture war topics. Is this legitimatly the democrats going to the left or is just the loudest and most extreme voices that get amplification to drown out the centrists? These positions are remarkably centrist - and centrism is out of favor with both parties.
  • analog31 5y ago
    Yet if I ask my kids about the Democratic party, they think it's too far to the right. For instance, they're pretty disillusioned about the Democrats actually passing a wealth tax or being anything but a party of the rich.
    • InTheArena 5y ago
      Case in point.
    • moistly 5y ago
      > Yet if I ask my kids about the Democratic party, they think it's too far to the right. A lot of people in America’s peer countries think the Democratic Party is at least as right-wing as their own country’s center-right party. We are now living in a world with globalized social media. Your kids are learning to not necessarily believe the mythologies.
      • mattcwilson 5y ago
        Could you cite a source or two for this claim?
• mattcwilson 5y ago
  What do you make of the: * pro GMO * pro SAT * pro markets/capitalism as a poverty reducer * deregulation / overhaul of the FDA * religious tolerance * anti Democratic elitism * pro gene tailoring / eugenics for expecting parents stances of his? Do you think that’s all part of the “90% ... democratic party lines?”
• noduerme 5y ago
  I miss when the Democratic party was pro sex and free speech... saying this as a lifelong Democrat.