5 ms·

Full paper on bioRxiv: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.471005v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.471005v1

fouc 5y ago
"In vitro neurons learn and exhibit sentience when embodied in a simulated game-world" Exhibiting sentience, that's a bit awkward ethically speaking.. Even though this type of testing will help us understand how our brains work.
- hlbjhblbljib 5y ago
  ethics only comes in when they exhibit consciousness.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    You can't prove anything is conscious. How would you test for that?
    - contravariant 5y ago
      You connect it and one of the researchers to a chat window and the one that first convinces some third party they're conscious gets let out.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  Sentient means "Physiology. Of organs or tissues: Responsive to sensory stimuli." or more generally, "That feels or is capable of feeling; having the power or function of sensation or of perception by the senses." and "Conscious or percipient of something." It doesn't mean human intelligence or consciousness.
  - parineum 5y ago
    Sapience and sentience is the differentiating language for what you're describing.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      To get into the weeds a little, I've used 'sapient' that way but I haven't found any good source saying that others do the same (except you! Terry? Is that you? ;) ). The leading dictionaries I've looked in talk about 'wisdom' and 'sagacity', not 'human-level intelligence and conciousness'. However, I haven't found a better word than 'sapient' for the latter meaning. So, * Do you know a source that defines it 'our' way? * Do you know another word to use for the latter meaning?
      - parineum 5y ago
        I'm not Terry so there are at least three of us! I don't know exactly where I picked that up but it seems to be generally accurate. https://grammarist.com/usage/sentience-vs-sapience/ https://grammarist.com/usage/sentience-vs-sapience/
        wolverine876 5y ago
        Thank you. That motivated me to dig into a little research (what could be more important this evening?). Brave New Words: Oxford Dictionary of Science Fiction ed. Jeff Prucher (2007) says, * "sapient n. an intelligent being". First known use of any form of sapient/ce: 1960 in Woman Day by PJ Farmer: "It seemed to him a possibility that the Cold War Corps of March might have contacted hitherto unknown sapients on some just discovered interstellar planet." * "sapience n. [< S.E. [standard English?] sapience, "wisdom"] intelligence" * "sapient adj. [< S.E. sapient, "wise"] intelligent" * "sentience n. 1. an intelligent being", "2. intelligence". Sense 1's first known use: "1947 G. O. Smith Kingdom of the Blind in Startling Stories (July) 48/1" * "sentient n. an intelligent being". First known use: 1965 by PJ Farmer (again) in Maker of Universes And a new word (to me): * "sophont n. ... [< Gk. sophos, "wise" + Gk. ont-, "being"] an intelligent being". First known use 1966 in Trouble Twisters by P. Anderson Available in the amazing Internet Archive library: https://archive.org/details/bravenewwordsoxf00pruc https://archive.org/details/bravenewwordsoxf00pruc ----------------- EDIT: But wait! There's also the "Historical Dictionary of Science Fiction" edited by Jesse Sheidlower ("offshoot of a project begun by the Oxford English Dictionary" - which another article says is the same origin as the dictionary above [1]). Here are the significant differences with the above source: * sapient, first use of any form: "1935 B. Olsen Who Deserves Credit? in Amazing Stories Feb. 81": "When EXPLORATION blazed through space...And found men, sapient, on Mars, He gained renown's most honored place." * sentience/nt:, first use of any form: "1931 J. Williamson Stone from Green Star in Amazing Stories Nov. ix. 739/2": "'We are dealing with an utterly alien world,' Midos Ken said several times. 'There is sentience here-but sentience in no familiar body. We must be prepared to deal with manifestations of intelligence that are unfamiliar or even inconceivable to the human mind.'" There's a 1920 quote, but it doesn't represent human intelligence: "1920 Punch Feb. 25 150/3": "By systematic and scientific training is it possible to produce that perfect type of manhood gifted with the best powers of what we are wont to call the 'lower orders of creation'-keen sighted and swift of motion as a bird, sharp-scented as a greyhound, faithful and acute as a dog, and full of sentient wisdom as an elephant." All from: https://sfdictionary.com/ https://sfdictionary.com/ [1] https://blog.archive.org/2021/03/24/major-scifi-discovery-hiding-in-plain-sight-at-the-internet-archive/ https://blog.archive.org/2021/03/24/major-scifi-discovery-hi...
dr1337 5y ago
The real MVP. Thanks!

fouc 5y ago

"In vitro neurons learn and exhibit sentience when embodied in a simulated game-world" Exhibiting sentience, that's a bit awkward ethically speaking.. Even though this type of testing will help us understand how our brains work.

hlbjhblbljib 5y ago
ethics only comes in when they exhibit consciousness.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  You can't prove anything is conscious. How would you test for that?
  - contravariant 5y ago
    You connect it and one of the researchers to a chat window and the one that first convinces some third party they're conscious gets let out.
wolverine876 5y ago
Sentient means "Physiology. Of organs or tissues: Responsive to sensory stimuli." or more generally, "That feels or is capable of feeling; having the power or function of sensation or of perception by the senses." and "Conscious or percipient of something." It doesn't mean human intelligence or consciousness.
- parineum 5y ago
  Sapience and sentience is the differentiating language for what you're describing.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    To get into the weeds a little, I've used 'sapient' that way but I haven't found any good source saying that others do the same (except you! Terry? Is that you? ;) ). The leading dictionaries I've looked in talk about 'wisdom' and 'sagacity', not 'human-level intelligence and conciousness'. However, I haven't found a better word than 'sapient' for the latter meaning. So, * Do you know a source that defines it 'our' way? * Do you know another word to use for the latter meaning?
    - parineum 5y ago
      I'm not Terry so there are at least three of us! I don't know exactly where I picked that up but it seems to be generally accurate. https://grammarist.com/usage/sentience-vs-sapience/ https://grammarist.com/usage/sentience-vs-sapience/
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        Thank you. That motivated me to dig into a little research (what could be more important this evening?). Brave New Words: Oxford Dictionary of Science Fiction ed. Jeff Prucher (2007) says, * "sapient n. an intelligent being". First known use of any form of sapient/ce: 1960 in Woman Day by PJ Farmer: "It seemed to him a possibility that the Cold War Corps of March might have contacted hitherto unknown sapients on some just discovered interstellar planet." * "sapience n. [< S.E. [standard English?] sapience, "wisdom"] intelligence" * "sapient adj. [< S.E. sapient, "wise"] intelligent" * "sentience n. 1. an intelligent being", "2. intelligence". Sense 1's first known use: "1947 G. O. Smith Kingdom of the Blind in Startling Stories (July) 48/1" * "sentient n. an intelligent being". First known use: 1965 by PJ Farmer (again) in Maker of Universes And a new word (to me): * "sophont n. ... [< Gk. sophos, "wise" + Gk. ont-, "being"] an intelligent being". First known use 1966 in Trouble Twisters by P. Anderson Available in the amazing Internet Archive library: https://archive.org/details/bravenewwordsoxf00pruc https://archive.org/details/bravenewwordsoxf00pruc ----------------- EDIT: But wait! There's also the "Historical Dictionary of Science Fiction" edited by Jesse Sheidlower ("offshoot of a project begun by the Oxford English Dictionary" - which another article says is the same origin as the dictionary above [1]). Here are the significant differences with the above source: * sapient, first use of any form: "1935 B. Olsen Who Deserves Credit? in Amazing Stories Feb. 81": "When EXPLORATION blazed through space...And found men, sapient, on Mars, He gained renown's most honored place." * sentience/nt:, first use of any form: "1931 J. Williamson Stone from Green Star in Amazing Stories Nov. ix. 739/2": "'We are dealing with an utterly alien world,' Midos Ken said several times. 'There is sentience here-but sentience in no familiar body. We must be prepared to deal with manifestations of intelligence that are unfamiliar or even inconceivable to the human mind.'" There's a 1920 quote, but it doesn't represent human intelligence: "1920 Punch Feb. 25 150/3": "By systematic and scientific training is it possible to produce that perfect type of manhood gifted with the best powers of what we are wont to call the 'lower orders of creation'-keen sighted and swift of motion as a bird, sharp-scented as a greyhound, faithful and acute as a dog, and full of sentient wisdom as an elephant." All from: https://sfdictionary.com/ https://sfdictionary.com/ [1] https://blog.archive.org/2021/03/24/major-scifi-discovery-hiding-in-plain-sight-at-the-internet-archive/ https://blog.archive.org/2021/03/24/major-scifi-discovery-hi...

dr1337 5y ago

The real MVP. Thanks!