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> It's a product where Apple really didn't consider the real world implications. It's a neat device, and I'm sure it's well intended, but it's not fit for the w

> It's a product where Apple really didn't consider the real world implications. It's a neat device, and I'm sure it's well intended, but it's not fit for the world we're currently living in. Exactly; it's unfortunate, but this sort of product should really be made illegal, just due to the many ways it can be misused.

derefr 5y ago
This is incredibly inane. The components that make up a GPS tracker are both extremely cheap to produce, too general-purpose to be made illegal themselves, and can be put together to make a GPS tracker with zero technical skill, just by following any of a thousand YouTube videos. (I have one explaining how to make a GPS tracker out of an Arduino on my YouTube home page right now!) All that making GPS tracking devices illegal would do is to eliminate all the positive-sum uses of the technology, while creating literally no additional barrier for people already willing to break the law. It’s the “then only criminals will have guns” thing, but much more clear-cut, because while making your own gun from general-purpose input components requires a machine shop and an unethical person with machining skills to run it (and so making guns illegal really does make guns harder to acquire — though not impossible), making a GPS tracker from general-purpose input components can be done in your own living room without even a soldering iron.
- ahepp 5y ago
  I think there's some merit to the argument that making tracking products widely available has risks and downsides. For one, there are some important differences between AirTags and a GPS tracker. AirTags don't use GPS (at least, on the tag itself). They're tracked by all the Apple devices around them, and they can use lower power (perhaps even passive) methods. A GPS tracker requires some kind of uplink. A tracker using GPS would need to be larger, and have a shorter battery life for a given size. AirTags are also innocuous to buy and not immediately alarming to see in someone's possession. The argument that anyone is capable of building a GPS tracker in their living room seems unlikely to me. I think this is far beyond the capabilities of 99.9% of people (although it's a fairly straightforward and very fun project for people interested in Arduino). All this said, I am mostly in agreement that the arguments against AirTags seem fairly weak. Especially because I assume Apple has a way to easily determine who placed the AirTag, and that they would face serious consequences.
lazide 5y ago
Except they clearly did consider it? And made many countermeasures, from beeping loudly after separation, to releasing an open source first party app on the dominant competing platform to show what is going on. If anyone provides a device? It’s also traceable to the owner/person watching it. None of these things are possible/done for the myriad of GPS trackers out there. Apple has made it very risky and frankly dumb to use them for this purpose.

derefr 5y ago

This is incredibly inane. The components that make up a GPS tracker are both extremely cheap to produce, too general-purpose to be made illegal themselves, and can be put together to make a GPS tracker with zero technical skill, just by following any of a thousand YouTube videos. (I have one explaining how to make a GPS tracker out of an Arduino on my YouTube home page right now!) All that making GPS tracking devices illegal would do is to eliminate all the positive-sum uses of the technology, while creating literally no additional barrier for people already willing to break the law. It’s the “then only criminals will have guns” thing, but much more clear-cut, because while making your own gun from general-purpose input components requires a machine shop and an unethical person with machining skills to run it (and so making guns illegal really does make guns harder to acquire — though not impossible), making a GPS tracker from general-purpose input components can be done in your own living room without even a soldering iron.

ahepp 5y ago
I think there's some merit to the argument that making tracking products widely available has risks and downsides. For one, there are some important differences between AirTags and a GPS tracker. AirTags don't use GPS (at least, on the tag itself). They're tracked by all the Apple devices around them, and they can use lower power (perhaps even passive) methods. A GPS tracker requires some kind of uplink. A tracker using GPS would need to be larger, and have a shorter battery life for a given size. AirTags are also innocuous to buy and not immediately alarming to see in someone's possession. The argument that anyone is capable of building a GPS tracker in their living room seems unlikely to me. I think this is far beyond the capabilities of 99.9% of people (although it's a fairly straightforward and very fun project for people interested in Arduino). All this said, I am mostly in agreement that the arguments against AirTags seem fairly weak. Especially because I assume Apple has a way to easily determine who placed the AirTag, and that they would face serious consequences.

lazide 5y ago

Except they clearly did consider it? And made many countermeasures, from beeping loudly after separation, to releasing an open source first party app on the dominant competing platform to show what is going on. If anyone provides a device? It’s also traceable to the owner/person watching it. None of these things are possible/done for the myriad of GPS trackers out there. Apple has made it very risky and frankly dumb to use them for this purpose.