8 ms·

The worst part of this is, if you don’t have an iPhone, you’ll never know if you’re being tracked. Edit: Yes, I know there’s an app. Do you think more than 1%

by raldi 5y ago

The worst part of this is, if you don’t have an iPhone, you’ll never know if you’re being tracked. Edit: Yes, I know there’s an app. Do you think more than 1% of victims will have it installed?

educaysean 5y ago
If you already knew that there was an app out there, maybe don't use absolutist sounding phrases like "they'll never know" just to come back and make defensive edits about how nobody out there knows about its existence when you yourself obviously knew about it.
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  Yes, i, android user, have to install an Apple app to know I'm being tracked by their devices. I, average android user, also do this proactively because I know some creep/car thief/angry customer/... might want to track me or my wife. Nothing to see here, all totally normal and expected and I should be grateful that there is an app to defend myself proactively against such tracking. I should also do the same for Microsoft, Huawei, Samsung, Sony, ... tracking tags. If that eats my phone battery this is just a small price to pay to assure my daughter won't be kidnapped or my house broken in as the attacker conveniently knew I wasn't home. May I suggest we also all proactively wear tinfoil helmets to ensure Tesla's 'level 5 self-driving cars' don't kill us? You know, totally not the responsibility of the manufacturer to make sure their products are safe for all.
edot 5y ago
Apple made an Android app for this.
- timeon 5y ago
  That is good that they made it, but the fact that you need to install some app for something that you do not use, seems to me like opt-out tracking?
- wnevets 5y ago
  which currently has a rating of 2/5 because of how terrible it is.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    Did you read the reviews ? Maybe because the bad guys do not want you to use it. You need to underestand that there are a lot of people paid to have an opinion on the internet.
    - wnevets 5y ago
      If that was the case why don't the non-Apple apps have the same problem then?
    - celsoazevedo 5y ago
      Some of the (dumb) reviews don't change the fact that Apple's app requires you to perform manual scans and doesn't alert you if you're being tracked. Only iPhones do that.
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  Apple's app requires you to scan manually, it doesn't warn you if you're being stalked. You'll need something like Air Guard to get similar notifications.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gnabgib 5y ago
  The app is stop gap at best - it has to be run manually, the screen has to be on, and it chews batteries (due to phone architectural designs)
phkahler 5y ago
There is at least one android app to list nearby airtags. The one I found requires you to manually start a scan though so it doesn't alert to issues like this one. OTOH your own phone won't be used to track the air tag. OTOH half the people around you have an iPhone that will do it for them.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  Care to link the one you found? Going through the play store these days is a nightmare of privacy problems and adware so if you already found a good one, that would be nice to mention.
  - gotorazor 5y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-app-airtag-search-tracker-detect-find-my https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-a... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trackerdetect https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trac... This one is first-party from Apple.
sschueller 5y ago
There is, it's open source and works. I have have this running on my phone in the background and it has alerted me a few times like when my phone was in the locker at the gym and someones airtags was in a locker close to mine. https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
xwdv 5y ago
Slip it into a young child’s backpack, they rarely have iPhones. Wait for them to get out of school… Do you see the danger
- rocqua 5y ago
  I see the creepy potential. I don't see the danger.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    The danger is that predators could track a child to a secluded area and abduct them.
    - kayodelycaon 5y ago
      The vast majority of abductions of children are by family. Same with other crimes against children. People they know are far more dangerous than people they don’t. The predators aren’t hiding in the bushes, they are already in the house.
      - xwdv 5y ago
        This is some kind of bias, the reason this is true is because it’s far easier for those people to abduct a child whose habits they know well. Now that the technology to track anyone is far easier to come by, maybe that will change.
        lazyasciiart 5y ago
        No, that is not the reason. Most children are abducted in some kind of custody dispute, by someone who believes that they already have some kind of rights over the child.
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        That's true but I don't see how it negates my point.
frakkingcylons 5y ago
Not true, no app is necessary. The AirTag will start beeping once it's been separated from its owner for longer than 8-24 hours.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  That's going to be hard to hear when driving on the highway, also, the seems like a long time if someone is following you home from a bar. I don't think there's any good way for Apple to fix this. On the other hand, it's been possible to do something similar for a long time, just not this easy, and at this price point. You could suggest that the AirTag disable tracking if it move along with the same phone for more than 15mins, but that's would mean you could steal anything with an AirTag and just keep moving for that period of time. The Android app also isn't helpful, because many don't know that they need to install it, nor should they have to. Nor does it help say elderly people with no smartphone. It's a product where Apple really didn't consider the real world implications. It's a neat device, and I'm sure it's well intended, but it's not fit for the world we're currently living in.
  - AdamJacobMuller 5y ago
    > just not this easy You're correct, it's been easier. > at this price point You're right, it's been cheaper. > do something similar for a long time, You're right, it's been similar except that the other methods were far harder for the victim to detect.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    The only significant differences between AirTags and other devices are the fact that the victim’s phone might be used to transmit their own location and the widespread availability and marketing of AirPods compared to other devices. Apple can’t really do much about the latter (other than discontinuing them), but it seems like they could partially address the former by having each phone only transmit the location of non-owned AirTags a single time. This might not work if the victim’s car if in heavy traffic where phones in other cars can transmit the location, but it could at least help in cases where a single car is driving home alone.
2-718-281-828 5y ago
how do I see airtags around me with my iphone? on "find my" I just see my own apple stuff.
- after_care 5y ago
  iPhone will send an alert to you if unknown AirTag is following you around.
  - 2-718-281-828 5y ago
    then I don't see how this is a problem having someone else's airtag on the car. the owner of the car is the only person being "followed" by it.
    - celsoazevedo 5y ago
      The owner of the tag knows, in real time, where the tag is and only iPhones receive the tracking notifications.
    - schmorptron 5y ago
      Because the owner of the car would need to have an iPhone?
- raldi 5y ago
  You can't. You only get an alert after one's been following you around.
mortenjorck 5y ago
The flip side of this is that if you don’t have an iPhone, you don’t have anything participating in the mesh network that’s required for the AirTag to operate. Of course, someone else’s iPhone could still pick it up and relay the position, but this becomes considerably less likely in a scenario where the adversary is attempting to track a vehicle.
- pmlamotte 5y ago
  If tracking the vehicle to the destination is the goal it's fairly likely someone with an iPhone will pass by the vehicle at some point. Especially in an apartment complex or public shared parking.

by raldi 5y ago

educaysean 5y ago

If you already knew that there was an app out there, maybe don't use absolutist sounding phrases like "they'll never know" just to come back and make defensive edits about how nobody out there knows about its existence when you yourself obviously knew about it.

estaseuropano 5y ago
Yes, i, android user, have to install an Apple app to know I'm being tracked by their devices. I, average android user, also do this proactively because I know some creep/car thief/angry customer/... might want to track me or my wife. Nothing to see here, all totally normal and expected and I should be grateful that there is an app to defend myself proactively against such tracking. I should also do the same for Microsoft, Huawei, Samsung, Sony, ... tracking tags. If that eats my phone battery this is just a small price to pay to assure my daughter won't be kidnapped or my house broken in as the attacker conveniently knew I wasn't home. May I suggest we also all proactively wear tinfoil helmets to ensure Tesla's 'level 5 self-driving cars' don't kill us? You know, totally not the responsibility of the manufacturer to make sure their products are safe for all.

edot 5y ago

Apple made an Android app for this.

timeon 5y ago
That is good that they made it, but the fact that you need to install some app for something that you do not use, seems to me like opt-out tracking?
wnevets 5y ago
which currently has a rating of 2/5 because of how terrible it is.
- hulitu 5y ago
  Did you read the reviews ? Maybe because the bad guys do not want you to use it. You need to underestand that there are a lot of people paid to have an opinion on the internet.
  - wnevets 5y ago
    If that was the case why don't the non-Apple apps have the same problem then?
  - celsoazevedo 5y ago
    Some of the (dumb) reviews don't change the fact that Apple's app requires you to perform manual scans and doesn't alert you if you're being tracked. Only iPhones do that.
jeroenhd 5y ago
Apple's app requires you to scan manually, it doesn't warn you if you're being stalked. You'll need something like Air Guard to get similar notifications.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gnabgib 5y ago
The app is stop gap at best - it has to be run manually, the screen has to be on, and it chews batteries (due to phone architectural designs)

phkahler 5y ago

There is at least one android app to list nearby airtags. The one I found requires you to manually start a scan though so it doesn't alert to issues like this one. OTOH your own phone won't be used to track the air tag. OTOH half the people around you have an iPhone that will do it for them.

lucb1e 5y ago
Care to link the one you found? Going through the play store these days is a nightmare of privacy problems and adware so if you already found a good one, that would be nice to mention.
- gotorazor 5y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-app-airtag-search-tracker-detect-find-my https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/13/22832731/apple-android-a... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trackerdetect https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trac... This one is first-party from Apple.

sschueller 5y ago

There is, it's open source and works. I have have this running on my phone in the background and it has alerted me a few times like when my phone was in the locker at the gym and someones airtags was in a locker close to mine. https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

xwdv 5y ago

Slip it into a young child’s backpack, they rarely have iPhones. Wait for them to get out of school… Do you see the danger

rocqua 5y ago
I see the creepy potential. I don't see the danger.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  The danger is that predators could track a child to a secluded area and abduct them.
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    The vast majority of abductions of children are by family. Same with other crimes against children. People they know are far more dangerous than people they don’t. The predators aren’t hiding in the bushes, they are already in the house.
    - xwdv 5y ago
      This is some kind of bias, the reason this is true is because it’s far easier for those people to abduct a child whose habits they know well. Now that the technology to track anyone is far easier to come by, maybe that will change.
      - lazyasciiart 5y ago
        No, that is not the reason. Most children are abducted in some kind of custody dispute, by someone who believes that they already have some kind of rights over the child.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      That's true but I don't see how it negates my point.

frakkingcylons 5y ago

Not true, no app is necessary. The AirTag will start beeping once it's been separated from its owner for longer than 8-24 hours.

mrweasel 5y ago
That's going to be hard to hear when driving on the highway, also, the seems like a long time if someone is following you home from a bar. I don't think there's any good way for Apple to fix this. On the other hand, it's been possible to do something similar for a long time, just not this easy, and at this price point. You could suggest that the AirTag disable tracking if it move along with the same phone for more than 15mins, but that's would mean you could steal anything with an AirTag and just keep moving for that period of time. The Android app also isn't helpful, because many don't know that they need to install it, nor should they have to. Nor does it help say elderly people with no smartphone. It's a product where Apple really didn't consider the real world implications. It's a neat device, and I'm sure it's well intended, but it's not fit for the world we're currently living in.
- AdamJacobMuller 5y ago
  > just not this easy You're correct, it's been easier. > at this price point You're right, it's been cheaper. > do something similar for a long time, You're right, it's been similar except that the other methods were far harder for the victim to detect.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  The only significant differences between AirTags and other devices are the fact that the victim’s phone might be used to transmit their own location and the widespread availability and marketing of AirPods compared to other devices. Apple can’t really do much about the latter (other than discontinuing them), but it seems like they could partially address the former by having each phone only transmit the location of non-owned AirTags a single time. This might not work if the victim’s car if in heavy traffic where phones in other cars can transmit the location, but it could at least help in cases where a single car is driving home alone.

2-718-281-828 5y ago

how do I see airtags around me with my iphone? on "find my" I just see my own apple stuff.

after_care 5y ago
iPhone will send an alert to you if unknown AirTag is following you around.
- 2-718-281-828 5y ago
  then I don't see how this is a problem having someone else's airtag on the car. the owner of the car is the only person being "followed" by it.
  - celsoazevedo 5y ago
    The owner of the tag knows, in real time, where the tag is and only iPhones receive the tracking notifications.
  - schmorptron 5y ago
    Because the owner of the car would need to have an iPhone?
raldi 5y ago
You can't. You only get an alert after one's been following you around.

mortenjorck 5y ago

The flip side of this is that if you don’t have an iPhone, you don’t have anything participating in the mesh network that’s required for the AirTag to operate. Of course, someone else’s iPhone could still pick it up and relay the position, but this becomes considerably less likely in a scenario where the adversary is attempting to track a vehicle.

pmlamotte 5y ago
If tracking the vehicle to the destination is the goal it's fairly likely someone with an iPhone will pass by the vehicle at some point. Especially in an apartment complex or public shared parking.