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> packages(/containers) from PRC are delayed or cancelled, invoices are not being paid, we are losing business there I think the whole western world should sto

• rayiner 5y ago
  Who is China bullying except it’s own people?
  • xwolfi 5y ago
    Taiwanese people?
  • lui8906 5y ago
    Look to their diplomatic behavior around the South China Sea for the last couple of decades.
    • whimsicalism 5y ago
      The US views itself as the enforcer of UNCLOS for all navigable bodies of water in the entire world, a treaty it hasn't ratified. It has tons of military bases in the SCS, a region not even close to it, compared to the furor when it becomes possible that China might build a single military base along Africa's atlantic coast. It seems like a bit of a double standard to me. I wish a good faith discussion about China was possible here, but I think that HN swings pretty jingoistic on these issues.
      • scottLobster 5y ago
        What-aboutisms and calling people jingoist. Who exactly do you think you're convincing other than yourself? Point me to the last time the US used its navy to directly threaten merchant shipping.
        • syki 5y ago
          It’s not an example of using the navy but it’s effect - the result is what matters, not the means - is the same. https://news.yahoo.com/us-warns-against-dealing-top-iran-shipper-201837683.html https://news.yahoo.com/us-warns-against-dealing-top-iran-shi... This one involves the Navy. https://news.antiwar.com/2020/05/19/us-threatens-ships-in-persian-gulf-tells-them-to-stay-clear/ https://news.antiwar.com/2020/05/19/us-threatens-ships-in-pe...
        • whimsicalism 5y ago
          I am not making a whataboutism claim. I am merely trying to figure out what our standard for "bullying" behavior is. If the standard for "bullying" behavior happens to also apply to the US and is the impetus for why Lithuana evacuated its embassy, then I would suggest they should evacuate their US embassy as well. If there is a reason why Lithuania hasn't evacuated their US embassy, then I am just seeking to figure out what the standard is that makes China's behavior uniquely bad. I think it is pretty undeniable that jingoistic rhetoric has increased in both China and the US in recent years.
          • stale2002 5y ago
            The reason why Lithuania has not evacuated it's US embassy is obviously because china is directly targeting Lithuania right now and the US isn't. Was that really a hard question to answer?
          • krisoft 5y ago
            > If there is a reason why Lithuania hasn't evacuated their US embassy, … That is a simple one. The US is not hurting Lithuania the same way China is hurting Lithuania. This is the reason why Lithuania evacuated their Chinese embassy and not their US embassy. Your question seems to imply that Lithuania drawn a big tally of the Chinese “moral failings” in general and decided to withdraw. This is not what happened. Lithuania allowed Taiwan to open an embassy in their country. In response, the PRC recalled its ambassador in Vilnius, Shen Zhifei, and demanded that Lithuania recall its ambassador in Beijing, Diana Mickevičienė. Following this Lithuania experienced a trade distruption. Shipments to and from Lithuania didn’t clear Chinese customs and invoices went unpaid. It goes as far that assemblies containing Lithuanian parts get blocked by the Chinese. This is not rhetoric. This is not some feel-good measure to communicate displeasure with China in an abstract. This is a trade war. Now I ask: is the US doing anything like this to Lithuania right now?
      • nyokodo 5y ago
        > The US views itself as the enforcer of UNCLOS for all navigable bodies of water in the entire world 50 years ago Americans were mass bombing North Vietnam, spraying toxic chemicals across large swathes, and generally killing. However, now America is a friend and trading partner to Vietnam and China is a bitter rival because China has many centuries of history bullying and brutally subjugating Vietnam and compared to that the US comes off looking ok. It doesn’t diminish how terrible and regrettable the Vietnam War was but it sure puts China’s long held attitude toward foreigners in stark relief! If criticism of the US and the President were treated by the US with such vitriol and reprisals as China responds to criticisms of China and Xi then the world would be a smoldering crater.
      • d3vmax 5y ago
        PRC Shill alert!
        • dang 5y ago
          Whoa - you can't break the site guidelines like this, and certainly not repeatedly (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29616354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29616354). We ban accounts that do this, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules, we'd appreciate it.
          • d3vmax 5y ago
            Hi dang, will be mindful to reply with more context, thank you for the warning. What can we do about commenters that spew misinformation or twist issues? Is there a report option?
            • whimsicalism 5y ago
              You can flag, but you might have to have posted a little bit more in order to be able to do it. I am not sure what the guidelines are for flagging tbph
            • dang 5y ago
              You can flag comments and, in egregious cases, email us at hn@ycombinator.com. That's in the guidelines. Would you mind reviewing them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
          • d3vmax 5y ago
            I saw that you have warned whimsicalism to not flamebait. He also changed his original comment on which I commented that he is a PRC shill.
  • jwandborg 5y ago
    Lithuania?
  • FredrikMeyer 5y ago
    The Uigurs, for instance.
    • whimsicalism 5y ago
      • omginternets 5y ago
        This goes a fair bit beyond “disproportionate imprisonment”, as I’m sure you know.
        • whimsicalism 5y ago
          What do you mean a "fair bit beyond"? I don't think imprisoning a large proportion of a certain ethnic group due to BS laws around extremist ideology is all that different from imprisoning an even greater number of a different ethnic group (1 in 3 black men imprisoned) due to BS laws producing a 100:1 sentencing disparity based on which drug is more popular among a certain ethnic group.
          • skeeter2020 5y ago
            Please review the data behind your catchy "1 in 3" headline. At the very least it's out of date, if not sensationalist. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/06/16/the-stale-statistic-that-one-in-three-black-males-has-a-chance-of-ending-up-in-jail/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/06/...
            • whimsicalism 5y ago
              I've been using the past tense this whole time, I am not claiming that it is occurring in the present. In the 80s and 90s, 1 out of every 3 young black men was under current custody by the criminal justice system, and the lifetime rates were close to the 1 in 3. Today, you are correct that it is closer to 1 in 4 (although still above). I don't think this makes a very large difference in my point.
  • riffraff 5y ago
    China won't allow airlines to say they fly to Taiwan. Western media frequently defer to PRC rules (the latest one: Top Gun sequel removing the taiwanese flag). John Cena had to publicly apologize because he referred to Taiwan as a country. Chinese vessels regularly violate territorial waters, and there is an ongoing spat with India around their borders. The PRC is bullying the whole planet, and people are letting them do it in name of profit.
    • whimsicalism 5y ago
      > Chinese vessels regularly violate territorial waters, and there is an ongoing spat with India around their borders. If you are talking about India's spat with China in terms of territorial waters, I think the general consensus is that India is in excess of international law with its claims and China is conducting legal freedom of navigation operations just like the US does. The SCS is an entirely different issue, where both China and Taiwan have made territorial claims that are largely illegal under international law.
      • lumost 5y ago
        The “spat” was the early 2020 militarized border conflict in the Himalayas. Recent talks to reach a resolution on this issue failed.
      • d3vmax 5y ago
        PRC Shill here!
    • peoplefromibiza 5y ago
      > because he referred to Taiwan as a country. But it isn't. Officially Taiwan is not a sovereign country. The status is controversial, it's similar to Catalunya in Spain (see what happened to Catalan leader Puigdemont) or Flanders in Belgium, but Taiwan is not officially a country. I think that if someone called Fort-de-France a country, France would correct them. On the other side of the spectrum, if someone says that Vatican and San Marino are Italy, they would protest. China is not dissimilar from USA In this regards.
  • mistrial9 5y ago
    Tibetan people and culture
  • javajosh 5y ago
    >Who is China bullying except it’s own people? Hollywood - see John Cena's obsequious display. Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93China_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93China_relati...). Right now, Hong Kong, above all.
    • neom 5y ago
      Until recently, Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an...
  • eloisius 5y ago
    [flagged]
    • whimsicalism 5y ago
      Calling disproportionate imprisonment (and racist imprisonment by ethnicity) "genocide" is genocide-trivialization, in my view. It wasn't a "genocide" when we imprisoned 1 in 3 black people in this country, even though it was pretty awful. The Holocaust was a genocide.
      • tomp 5y ago
        [flagged]
        • whimsicalism 5y ago
          I disagree if the sterilization is applied even-handedly as an application of their two-child law. I am skeptical that a lineage is being exterminated if, at minimum, they can have replacement level number of births. The Uyghur population is growing faster than the Han population is. But backing up a bit - really what I'm taking issue with is the word "genocide." We can call horrendous, human rights violating policies for what they are without having to fall back on calling something a "genocide." Not everyone who disagrees with you is PRC funded. I would encourage you to look over the HN guidelines as you seem to have forgotten some of them. [0] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
          • lumost 5y ago
            > The Uyghur population is growing faster than the Han population is. This seems to be the crux of your argument justifying the PRCs sterilization policy. As others have noted forced sterilization is a crime against humanity regardless of reason. Justification of forced sterilization based on a believed “correct” ethnic ratio is abhorrent.
            • 5y ago
  • quitit 5y ago
    See also: Australia. However it’s largely held that Australia have “won” despite China’s attempts at harming the Australian economy through many of the same tactics used against Lithuania.
  • IsThisYou 5y ago
    There are so many things, I could write an entire book. So here is one of literally thousands of crimes the CCP commits: It sends armed fishing boats[0] into the territorial waters of other countries to plunder its fishes. At night, PRC boats turn off their (mandatory) transponders, enter the waters to steal fish, then leave the territorial waters and turn their transponders back on. At times, you can watch it life on marinetraffic.com For instance, last year a huge fleets of PRC fishing vessels raided the nature reserve around the Galapagos Islands[1] and destroyed much of the fauna around the islands. Same tactic was used, they turn off their transponders, steal what they can, and then turn the transponders back on. Again, this is just one tiny topic of thousands of crimes the CCP and their thugs commit on a daily basis. The sooner the Chinese people are freed of that criminal organization, the better. Look at Taiwan: they are Chinese too, and they have one of the best run governments and most democratic systems in the world. [0] https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2019/05/31/testing-the-waters-chinas-maritime-militia-challenges-foreign-forces-at-sea/ https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2019/05/31/t... [1] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8858427/Huge-fleet-300-Chinese-fishing-boats-raping-Galapagos-Islands-waters-causing-damage.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8858427/Huge-fleet-... Also, I don't like that questions like your's are downvoted. Its a legitimate question and not everybody has the time to focus on PRC politics and the crimes of the CCP.
• mschuster91 5y ago
  We can't, we have exposed ourselves way too big with China over the last decades. Especially us Germans are a major part of the problem, given that our car industry has their only growth market in China - Europe and the US are saturated, South America, large parts of Asia and Africa are too poor (corrupt elites aside), and Arabia wants luxury cars that our car makers don't have - so the amount of influence from the car lobby on our politics is what has kept the CDU (the Conservative party that lost out end of September in the elections) to go against China.
  • peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    > and Arabia wants luxury cars that our car makers don't have Doesn't VW own Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Porsche? I think Mercedes has a pretty solid market in Arabia too.
    • CRConrad 5y ago
      > Doesn't VW own Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Porsche? Yup. And BMW owns Rolls Royce. > I think Mercedes has a pretty solid market in Arabia too. I'd imagine it's their Maybach sub-brand's biggest market not only in percentage of total local car sales, but in absolute numbers. (Hm... Unless the latter is China.)
• bradleybuda 5y ago
  Bringing China into the world of global trade has lifted literally hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty, and created a consumer surplus for billions of people in the developed world. I agree that China shouldn’t get a free pass to pull this schoolyard bully BS, but the economic consequences of “just cut them off” need to be factored in.
  • jgalt212 5y ago
    Fair enough, but draconian measures and their side effects (making many poor even poorer, and enriching Marc Rich) were pretty much universally espoused and employed against South Africa. Of course, China >> SA, but the per person human toll could be similar. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-marc-rich-got-around-sanctions-2013-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-marc-rich-got-around-san...
  • mrtweetyhack 5y ago
    you mean hundres of millions of Chinese? That's their problem
• dang 5y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29615050 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29615050.