8 ms·

I'm going to put some of the blame on the Denver government/police for this, but not for a lack of enforcement. If your bike is impounded or stolen and recovere

by soared 5y ago

I'm going to put some of the blame on the Denver government/police for this, but not for a lack of enforcement. If your bike is impounded or stolen and recovered it is nearly impossible to retrieve it. You cannot call to see if it was picked up. You cannot look for it online. You have to show up to their sketchy office during business hours, wait in line, and ask the guy to go look through all the bikes and try to find yours. With hundreds of bikes it almost certainly will not be found. The government auctions off some of the bikes and gives or sells the rest of the bikes to charity. Two years ago my bike was locked in a location it should not have been downtown along with many other bikes. When I came back to find my bike missing the police officer said all of the bikes were impounded. I called around, went to the impound place twice.. but my bike was never found. In short, great investigation work by bike index. But their efforts are hindered by the city.

hetspookjee 5y ago
Yet Facebook earns money of this illegal business, no? Just like their practice with the Amazon land plots they catered to buyers. The list of illegal things that Facebook facilitates in return of profits is endless and just banning the city is too short-sighted in my view.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Don't bikes have serial numbers? How hard is it to just publish the list of "found" and imponded bikes, that everyone can see?
- enjo 5y ago
  They use the serial number as a means to identify that you are actually the owner. Denver has a system where if you register you bike with the city and your bike is found they'll notify you.
  - bhance 5y ago
    ... and this serial-search system is closed to the public, whereas Bike index makes this possible to everybody.
  - jinto36 5y ago
    The serial number sticker on my Specialized de-laminated and peeled off after a few years of commuting in occasionally damp conditions. I was kind of shocked that there wouldn't be a better way of uniquely identifying it if I needed to, aside from having pictures of scratches and dings.
    - skhr0680 5y ago
      In my country the registration is a sticker but and the bike frame itself also has a serial number engraved
      - nradov 5y ago
        Can't engrave carbon fiber.
        grogenaut 5y ago
        you can inset a label into the resin, or a metal plate with an engraving on it. Or engrave any of the other embedded metal parts already in the frame for connection with the outside world.
        kbos87 5y ago
        Yes, this is a solvable problem. My hunch is that there’s no incentive for bike manufacturers to deal with this. If there were permanent serial numbers that could be attributed to the owner, they’d have to respond to thousands of requests for verification.
        skhr0680 5y ago
        The registration is with the police. The bike manufacturer just has to stamp a serial number on the frame
        enos_feedler 5y ago
        i would not leave carbon fiber bike anywhere but in my locked house
- mfg4u 5y ago
  Yes, but usually the first thing thieves do when they steal a bike is grind away the serial numbers.
  - dmurray 5y ago
    The extremely well-organized group detailed in TFA doesn't grind away the serial numbers, as you can see them in several of the photographs.
  - Ma8ee 5y ago
    And make it clear from the start to any potential buyers that it is a stolen bike?
    - ryguytilidie 5y ago
      ...yes?
      - Ma8ee 5y ago
        The price of obviously stolen goods is usually significantly lower, sometimes a magnitude lower, than not stolen goods.
    - vkou 5y ago
      The buyers are well aware they are buying stolen goods.
tommoor 5y ago
Large parts of America seem to still see bikes as "toys" rather than somewhat expensive vehicles that people depend on. Imagine if this approach was taken with recovered stolen cars too.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Except, it is almost the exact same with cars. If your car is stolen, there is very little chance the cops will actually help you recover it. If it is impounded, you too get to stand in line during business hours trying to get it back (if you can). At some point, those cars are also sold at auction. Where are you seeing the difference?
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Yeah - seriously. I only found my stolen car because someone reported it to the police because the people that were leaving it were being a loud nuisance. Oh yeah - it was already being given parking tickets too. While it was reported stolen. I had to go to the local court in person in order to get the tickets revoked. Law enforcement and the general institution of law does not care.
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      A friend of mine had his car stolen, his ex had a key and wanted to make him mad. We live in a rural area so the sheriff just dropped it off at his house once they recovered it. He even put gas in it and invited us to shoot at his range. I've also seen cops change tires and things like that.
      - bradlys 5y ago
        If you're in a more rural area - it will vary. I grew up with a LEO and in a rural area - so I'm familiar with how some cops will act in rural areas. There's a higher chance that if you're an officer in a rural area - you also live in that specific area that you're policing. Whereas in cities - it's very often that you're policing in a region where you don't vote or live in. Even for people I knew in law enforcement in the rural areas - they didn't like to live in the area they were policing because of the consequences. You're now a local who has to live with the consequences of how you've treated people during your job.
dillondoyle 5y ago
The theft here feels off the charts right now too. I know a lot of police have quit and they don't have budget to increase next class size. Vaccines too.. Sympathizers say that cities' new rules on when to engage are a big cause but it seems to me we can have both enforcement and no needless violence. To me it feels like police are just having a temper tantrum saying you don't want us, watch what happens when we don't do anything. I see cop cars breaking traffic laws around cap hill and downtown and just driving around staring at the homeless camps. Flipping on lights to go the wrong way down a one way street around civic building. When there is an OD (all the time) I just see them sitting in their car doing nothing but wait for paramedics. zero humanity. I can't remember the last time I've seen a traffic enforcement stop and speeding & illegal parking is out of control. I'm not sure if it's uniquely bad here? I know theft is increasing everywhere. I've had my car broken into four times this year, often they just pull on the topper until it breaks open. Usually nothing in there. Once went through back window to the front. If a package is in the entrance more than a day it will be gone. Last year I had a probably 300 pound, 4' x 6' wooden crate stolen from my back parking lot! insane. It was a pretty expensive marble sink top. I've installed cameras and more lights doesn't matter or make any difference. Somewhat off topic but insurance lady on the phone spent 20 minutes on hold trying to find a way to reject the claim... Same with my recent travel insurance. Provide them the bare minimum documentation and say nothing beyond a couple sentences on the phone they will just sit quietly on the phone waiting for you to say something, often emotionally since something crappy happened. they are looking for anything to use against your claim. Sucks.
- gjs278 5y ago
  the police are right. next time go beat up a hippie at a protest before he ruins your city.
- hermes8329 5y ago
  People hate to see reality but let's be honest. Cops do a terrible job. If a crime against you happens. It will likely never be solved. The report will be there for you though But they just don't have enough of funding is always the big complaint. And it's bullshit when they walk around with body armor and use military equipment from Iraq. Crimes only get solved accidentally by cops. If they happen to see it go down and then somehow catch them in the act
tomcam 5y ago
That whole situation is profoundly depressing.
jmspring 5y ago
Many cities do little to nothing about bike theft. I've sat in meetings with a prior police chief of the city of Santa Cruz where he flat out stated, unless the owner sees the theft (or an officer does), they will not do anything. At the time, multiple other cities I spent time in (the east bay) would at least make contact with and check on people. If the person had bike theft tools on them, they'd be arrested. Bike theft is one of the rampant issues in areas with excessive drug use, etc. Nearly every homeless encampment in west coast cities will have one or more people with piles of bikes and bike parts.
- ScottBurson 5y ago
  This is frustrating, because it's not a difficult crime to deter. The gain to the thief is very small, but if the city makes no enforcement effort at all, the risk to the thief is even smaller. Some people think that since police couldn't catch a large fraction of the offenders, it's not practical to deter the crime, but this isn't true; all that's needed is to bring the risk into the same range as the gain, which, again, is quite small. So almost any real chance of prosecution is sufficient. I've read that this theory has been verified experimentally, though I don't recall where.
randombits0 5y ago
So the cops are running them down to Mexico. Got it!
RickJWagner 5y ago
I had a house break-in a number of years ago. That's a BIG deal, at least it was for me. I understood then what it meant to feal 'violated'. I was also shocked that the cops seemed to be 'going through the motions'. They dusted for prints and took the identifying information I gave them, but I was expecting a little more action. I suppose I got that idea from tv. Now that time has passed and I've had time to cool down, I think I better understand what I saw happening. The small-ish city I live in has a small police force, they're almost always busy with some minor crimes, probably domestic disputes, drunk drivers, traffic safety, etc. There's just not time fo r the pawn-shop snooping I was imagining. I suppose if they had more budget, then there might be manpower for more activities. But I think the funding is about right-- I wouldn't want to pay for any more, and I wouldn't want any less safety.
peter303 5y ago
Furthermore, there are many openly visible bike chop-shop shops among the numerous tent camps around Denver. I have seen some with 20-50 bicycles lying about; many more then camp inhabitants could personally use. Social media like Nextdoor notes these. Its a low priority to overworked police who are aware of them. The felony-theft thresholdin Colorado is $2000; which many better bikes exceed.

by soared 5y ago

hetspookjee 5y ago

Yet Facebook earns money of this illegal business, no? Just like their practice with the Amazon land plots they catered to buyers. The list of illegal things that Facebook facilitates in return of profits is endless and just banning the city is too short-sighted in my view.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago

Don't bikes have serial numbers? How hard is it to just publish the list of "found" and imponded bikes, that everyone can see?

enjo 5y ago
They use the serial number as a means to identify that you are actually the owner. Denver has a system where if you register you bike with the city and your bike is found they'll notify you.
- bhance 5y ago
  ... and this serial-search system is closed to the public, whereas Bike index makes this possible to everybody.
- jinto36 5y ago
  The serial number sticker on my Specialized de-laminated and peeled off after a few years of commuting in occasionally damp conditions. I was kind of shocked that there wouldn't be a better way of uniquely identifying it if I needed to, aside from having pictures of scratches and dings.
  - skhr0680 5y ago
    In my country the registration is a sticker but and the bike frame itself also has a serial number engraved
    - nradov 5y ago
      Can't engrave carbon fiber.
      - grogenaut 5y ago
        you can inset a label into the resin, or a metal plate with an engraving on it. Or engrave any of the other embedded metal parts already in the frame for connection with the outside world.
        kbos87 5y ago
        Yes, this is a solvable problem. My hunch is that there’s no incentive for bike manufacturers to deal with this. If there were permanent serial numbers that could be attributed to the owner, they’d have to respond to thousands of requests for verification.
        skhr0680 5y ago
        The registration is with the police. The bike manufacturer just has to stamp a serial number on the frame
      - enos_feedler 5y ago
        i would not leave carbon fiber bike anywhere but in my locked house
mfg4u 5y ago
Yes, but usually the first thing thieves do when they steal a bike is grind away the serial numbers.
- dmurray 5y ago
  The extremely well-organized group detailed in TFA doesn't grind away the serial numbers, as you can see them in several of the photographs.
- Ma8ee 5y ago
  And make it clear from the start to any potential buyers that it is a stolen bike?
  - ryguytilidie 5y ago
    ...yes?
    - Ma8ee 5y ago
      The price of obviously stolen goods is usually significantly lower, sometimes a magnitude lower, than not stolen goods.
  - vkou 5y ago
    The buyers are well aware they are buying stolen goods.

tommoor 5y ago

Large parts of America seem to still see bikes as "toys" rather than somewhat expensive vehicles that people depend on. Imagine if this approach was taken with recovered stolen cars too.

dylan604 5y ago
Except, it is almost the exact same with cars. If your car is stolen, there is very little chance the cops will actually help you recover it. If it is impounded, you too get to stand in line during business hours trying to get it back (if you can). At some point, those cars are also sold at auction. Where are you seeing the difference?
- bradlys 5y ago
  Yeah - seriously. I only found my stolen car because someone reported it to the police because the people that were leaving it were being a loud nuisance. Oh yeah - it was already being given parking tickets too. While it was reported stolen. I had to go to the local court in person in order to get the tickets revoked. Law enforcement and the general institution of law does not care.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    A friend of mine had his car stolen, his ex had a key and wanted to make him mad. We live in a rural area so the sheriff just dropped it off at his house once they recovered it. He even put gas in it and invited us to shoot at his range. I've also seen cops change tires and things like that.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      If you're in a more rural area - it will vary. I grew up with a LEO and in a rural area - so I'm familiar with how some cops will act in rural areas. There's a higher chance that if you're an officer in a rural area - you also live in that specific area that you're policing. Whereas in cities - it's very often that you're policing in a region where you don't vote or live in. Even for people I knew in law enforcement in the rural areas - they didn't like to live in the area they were policing because of the consequences. You're now a local who has to live with the consequences of how you've treated people during your job.

dillondoyle 5y ago

The theft here feels off the charts right now too. I know a lot of police have quit and they don't have budget to increase next class size. Vaccines too.. Sympathizers say that cities' new rules on when to engage are a big cause but it seems to me we can have both enforcement and no needless violence. To me it feels like police are just having a temper tantrum saying you don't want us, watch what happens when we don't do anything. I see cop cars breaking traffic laws around cap hill and downtown and just driving around staring at the homeless camps. Flipping on lights to go the wrong way down a one way street around civic building. When there is an OD (all the time) I just see them sitting in their car doing nothing but wait for paramedics. zero humanity. I can't remember the last time I've seen a traffic enforcement stop and speeding & illegal parking is out of control. I'm not sure if it's uniquely bad here? I know theft is increasing everywhere. I've had my car broken into four times this year, often they just pull on the topper until it breaks open. Usually nothing in there. Once went through back window to the front. If a package is in the entrance more than a day it will be gone. Last year I had a probably 300 pound, 4' x 6' wooden crate stolen from my back parking lot! insane. It was a pretty expensive marble sink top. I've installed cameras and more lights doesn't matter or make any difference. Somewhat off topic but insurance lady on the phone spent 20 minutes on hold trying to find a way to reject the claim... Same with my recent travel insurance. Provide them the bare minimum documentation and say nothing beyond a couple sentences on the phone they will just sit quietly on the phone waiting for you to say something, often emotionally since something crappy happened. they are looking for anything to use against your claim. Sucks.

gjs278 5y ago
the police are right. next time go beat up a hippie at a protest before he ruins your city.
hermes8329 5y ago
People hate to see reality but let's be honest. Cops do a terrible job. If a crime against you happens. It will likely never be solved. The report will be there for you though But they just don't have enough of funding is always the big complaint. And it's bullshit when they walk around with body armor and use military equipment from Iraq. Crimes only get solved accidentally by cops. If they happen to see it go down and then somehow catch them in the act

tomcam 5y ago

That whole situation is profoundly depressing.

jmspring 5y ago

Many cities do little to nothing about bike theft. I've sat in meetings with a prior police chief of the city of Santa Cruz where he flat out stated, unless the owner sees the theft (or an officer does), they will not do anything. At the time, multiple other cities I spent time in (the east bay) would at least make contact with and check on people. If the person had bike theft tools on them, they'd be arrested. Bike theft is one of the rampant issues in areas with excessive drug use, etc. Nearly every homeless encampment in west coast cities will have one or more people with piles of bikes and bike parts.

ScottBurson 5y ago
This is frustrating, because it's not a difficult crime to deter. The gain to the thief is very small, but if the city makes no enforcement effort at all, the risk to the thief is even smaller. Some people think that since police couldn't catch a large fraction of the offenders, it's not practical to deter the crime, but this isn't true; all that's needed is to bring the risk into the same range as the gain, which, again, is quite small. So almost any real chance of prosecution is sufficient. I've read that this theory has been verified experimentally, though I don't recall where.

randombits0 5y ago

So the cops are running them down to Mexico. Got it!

RickJWagner 5y ago

I had a house break-in a number of years ago. That's a BIG deal, at least it was for me. I understood then what it meant to feal 'violated'. I was also shocked that the cops seemed to be 'going through the motions'. They dusted for prints and took the identifying information I gave them, but I was expecting a little more action. I suppose I got that idea from tv. Now that time has passed and I've had time to cool down, I think I better understand what I saw happening. The small-ish city I live in has a small police force, they're almost always busy with some minor crimes, probably domestic disputes, drunk drivers, traffic safety, etc. There's just not time fo r the pawn-shop snooping I was imagining. I suppose if they had more budget, then there might be manpower for more activities. But I think the funding is about right-- I wouldn't want to pay for any more, and I wouldn't want any less safety.

peter303 5y ago

Furthermore, there are many openly visible bike chop-shop shops among the numerous tent camps around Denver. I have seen some with 20-50 bicycles lying about; many more then camp inhabitants could personally use. Social media like Nextdoor notes these. Its a low priority to overworked police who are aware of them. The felony-theft thresholdin Colorado is $2000; which many better bikes exceed.