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> Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. I don't think so. Just look at what Americans buy. Money talks.

by trhway 5y ago

> Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. I don't think so. Just look at what Americans buy. Money talks. Lip service doesn't count. >on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. the frog just doesn't notice the boiling. For example how discussing Chinese origin of covid got branded as racist in the public mentality - i think that branding is a great PR success pulled by China which as a result turned public attention away from and severely eroded public support for covid origin investigation especially in the earlier days of pandemic when evidence/witnesses may have still been available.

mcguire 5y ago
Discussing the Chinese origin of COVID got branded because racists were using it as an excuse to attack Asians in America, including those who weren't of Chinese descent or whose families had immigrated many decades ago. Yes, if you accuse the waitress at a Chinese restaurant of being responsible for COVID, you are racist.
- trhway 5y ago
  911 also was used as pretext to attack Muslims/MidEasterners in America, yet discussing Afghanistan/Saudi/Al-Qaeda/Islamic extremism origins of the attack didn't get branded as racist. The firm association in the public mind between the attacks and origins, as your comment for example demonstrates, is the part of that great PR success by China.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Your memory of 2001-2007 or so is very different from mine. I recall the term "raghead", attacks, and the lovely picture of fully armed men in body armor "protesting" a mosque in Dallas. And yes, that was racist.
maeil 5y ago
It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find. Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans is all but taboo in "educated" circles. Same goes for discussing the role the WHO played and all evidence we have as to why it played that role. Any discussion of why this pandemic happened and that the nation where it originated has blocked all independent investigation to investigate this; bringing it up is not done.
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  The "leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid" is that it was a natural zoonosis. There's very little support for the lab leak conspiracy theory in the scientific community. Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press, contrary to what you're saying. The reason why this theory has become so popular in the US is that it distracts from the disastrous response to the pandemic in the US. China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since. Yet nearly two years later, the US is still struggling. As it says in Matthew, "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since. China has paid a huge economic cost for its zero COVID policy, not many other countries could or would afford such a solution. They aren’t the envy of the world (let alone America) in this regard.
    - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
      China was the only major economy to grow in 2020. The Chinese economy did well because of the zero-CoVID policy. The policy allowed China to reopen businesses in March-April 2020, and to avoid widespread lockdowns since.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        > The Chinese economy did well because of the zero-CoVID policy. The policy allowed China to reopen businesses in March-April 2020, and to avoid widespread lockdowns since Much of that GDP growth was still tearing down and building apartment blocks. It isn't real. Again, they are completely closed up now. They are "locked down" even if they aren't stuck in their houses anymore. I wouldn't want to be living in Beijing right now (where I was from 2007-2016), it isn't a very fun life these days.

by trhway 5y ago

mcguire 5y ago

Discussing the Chinese origin of COVID got branded because racists were using it as an excuse to attack Asians in America, including those who weren't of Chinese descent or whose families had immigrated many decades ago. Yes, if you accuse the waitress at a Chinese restaurant of being responsible for COVID, you are racist.

trhway 5y ago
911 also was used as pretext to attack Muslims/MidEasterners in America, yet discussing Afghanistan/Saudi/Al-Qaeda/Islamic extremism origins of the attack didn't get branded as racist. The firm association in the public mind between the attacks and origins, as your comment for example demonstrates, is the part of that great PR success by China.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Your memory of 2001-2007 or so is very different from mine. I recall the term "raghead", attacks, and the lovely picture of fully armed men in body armor "protesting" a mosque in Dallas. And yes, that was racist.

maeil 5y ago

It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find. Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans is all but taboo in "educated" circles. Same goes for discussing the role the WHO played and all evidence we have as to why it played that role. Any discussion of why this pandemic happened and that the nation where it originated has blocked all independent investigation to investigate this; bringing it up is not done.

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
The "leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid" is that it was a natural zoonosis. There's very little support for the lab leak conspiracy theory in the scientific community. Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press, contrary to what you're saying. The reason why this theory has become so popular in the US is that it distracts from the disastrous response to the pandemic in the US. China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since. Yet nearly two years later, the US is still struggling. As it says in Matthew, "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since. China has paid a huge economic cost for its zero COVID policy, not many other countries could or would afford such a solution. They aren’t the envy of the world (let alone America) in this regard.
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    China was the only major economy to grow in 2020. The Chinese economy did well because of the zero-CoVID policy. The policy allowed China to reopen businesses in March-April 2020, and to avoid widespread lockdowns since.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > The Chinese economy did well because of the zero-CoVID policy. The policy allowed China to reopen businesses in March-April 2020, and to avoid widespread lockdowns since Much of that GDP growth was still tearing down and building apartment blocks. It isn't real. Again, they are completely closed up now. They are "locked down" even if they aren't stuck in their houses anymore. I wouldn't want to be living in Beijing right now (where I was from 2007-2016), it isn't a very fun life these days.