5 ms·

If I understand his argument correctly, Tesla would be in compliance if they allowed anyone who buys FSD to use it immediately, just like Ford allows anyone to

by kjksf 5y ago

If I understand his argument correctly, Tesla would be in compliance if they allowed anyone who buys FSD to use it immediately, just like Ford allows anyone to use Blue Cruise on Mach-E. One of the essential parts of the argument is that Tesla falls under current law because they are selective about who they allow to use FSD. So Tesla could trivially be in compliance if they ditch the careful rollout. Give the software to anyone who pays for (instead of, as is the case currently, slowly expanding the number of people). And maybe change the name to Yellow Cruise instead of FSD and stop telling people it's beta software. And voila, compliant with CA DMV legislation. I hope that this person understands his own argument in which case it's hard to believe that he is concerned about safety.

droopyEyelids 5y ago
Isn't Blue Cruise only available on select mapped highways, and only described as a SAE J3016 level-2 system? That seems to be a crucial difference. ```The name ["Full Self Driving"] unequivocally communicates Tesla's goal for development, and the company's "beta" qualifier communicates the stage of that development. Tesla intends for its "full self-driving" to become, well, full self-driving, and its limited beta release is a key step in that process.``` Seems like your analysis skipped that part.
- maxdo 5y ago
  There is a huge difference between goal and actual state. You can't enable FSD Beta without clicking several checkboxes in clear language saying you have to pay attention every second on the road, you're responsible for single action of a car on the road. And it provides more restriction on a driver compares to regular driving, such as distraction camera monitor, phone monitor, hands off the wheel etc.. It's so boring to see how trolls have no numbers, no real issues but just trying attack the marketing name/aspirational goal.
  - MBCook 5y ago
    Ooooh. Checkboxes. That will definitely prevent abuse. Even if the Tesla owner is responsible about it, other people could drive the car and they wouldn’t have to agree to anything. They can go nuts. I’ve seen plenty of videos online too. I have no interest in driving next to a car being driven by a crazy AI that seems to have the driving skill of a 13-year-old playing GTA and not know the rules. I don’t have a Tesla. I was forcibly opted into this program. There is nothing to prevent other people from doing stupid and ridiculous things with this system and seriously injuring or killing me. Heck, they can do the right thing. I’ve seen videos were trying to take over control doesn’t seem to work. Where it tries to drive directly in the traffic in the wrong lane. This is insanely dangerous and I want no part of it but I don’t have any mechanism to stop it but to hope regulators do something. Tesla put MY life on the line.
    - maxdo 5y ago
      They use eye tracking camera, to prevent you from lookin not on the road, sensors of the wheel, and also checking you're not on the phone. They doing way more compares to any car maker to keep you safe as non owner of the tesla. I guess been so emotional you better stay in your basement until Level 4-5 will become a reality.
      - foobiekr 5y ago
        Tesla added the camera eye tracking very late in the game, just like they didn't add driver hands-off wheel detection and enforcement to autopilot until it had been available quite some time. I think this is one of the issues with Tesla FSD - the company basically has had to be forced to take safety seriously repeatedly and has not done so from the outset.
    - Sodman 5y ago
      Similarly, you and I are both forced to share the roads with folks who are impaired in various ways, whether it's declining reflexes, vision, cognitive function - or just straight up drunk driving. As somebody who comes from a country with very strict anti drunk-driving rules (checkpoints randomly on commonly used roads frequently enough to deter it), it blows my mind that I have to share the roads in the US with drivers who think having "just 4 beers" before their 45 minute drive home is fine. Since the US hasn't shown many signs for cracking down on drunk driving, and adding better infrastructure for folks who can no longer drive for various reasons is equally a non-starter at the moment - I'm all in favor of any system that speeds up the arrival of genuinely fully autonomous driving. Tesla hasn't killed or injured anyone using this "FSD beta" program to date, despite a large number of miles driven, so their existing precautions appear to be working. Even in the interim, before we reach fully autonomous driving, "better than the average human driver" is still a huge performance milestone worth aiming for before we start obsessing over "perfect" (Not saying FSD Beta is there yet, but Autopilot on Highways might be).
  - thinkmassive 5y ago
    I assume you refer to the invite-only beta with FSD that works on city streets, but Tesla's naming is (intentionally?) very confusing. It would go a long way if Tesla simply renamed the invite-only program to FSD Alpha, and continued referring to "enhanced Autopilot" that's available to everyone for an additional fee as FSD Beta.
paxys 5y ago
If they could roll it out to everyone they would do so in an instant. They cannot though because the system is not ready and needs a lot of testing, which is the point the author is making.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Yeah, regardless of this supposed legal incentive, I don’t see any reason why Tesla wouldn’t roll it out to everyone if they thought it was ready for that.
- sovnade 5y ago
  It's 100% not ready. There's so many videos people are posting about it nearly hitting pedestrians, going the wrong way down a 1 way, nearly going straight into a curb, etc - all of these only stopped by the driver quickly grabbing the wheel and taking control. It also doesn't seem to help that enabling FSD on Tesla makes it use the visual camera only, which seems counterproductive. The ultrasonic sensors seem to be critically important because visuals can be obstructed easier.
  - snek_case 5y ago
    > There's so many videos people are posting about it nearly hitting pedestrians Can you post a link to a video of FSD nearly hitting a pedestrian? Because searching on YouTube, I couldn't find a single one.
    - cycomanic 5y ago
      There was a video posted on reddit a couple of days ago. I think it was in San Jose, a number of times it tried to go into the tram lane and once or twice it almost hit pedestrians crossing a road when turning. Maybe that gives you enough information to find the link.
    - sovnade 5y ago
      https://www.loopinsight.com/2021/12/13/drive-around-san-jose-with-teslas-latest-full-self-driving-beta/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=drive-around-san-jose-with-teslas-latest-full-self-driving-beta https://www.loopinsight.com/2021/12/13/drive-around-san-jose...
renzo88 5y ago
>I hope that this person understands his own argument in which case it's hard to believe that he is concerned about safety. I think he understands his own argument. I don't think you don't understand the implications of why they haven't rolled it out.

by kjksf 5y ago

droopyEyelids 5y ago

Isn't Blue Cruise only available on select mapped highways, and only described as a SAE J3016 level-2 system? That seems to be a crucial difference. ```The name ["Full Self Driving"] unequivocally communicates Tesla's goal for development, and the company's "beta" qualifier communicates the stage of that development. Tesla intends for its "full self-driving" to become, well, full self-driving, and its limited beta release is a key step in that process.``` Seems like your analysis skipped that part.

maxdo 5y ago
There is a huge difference between goal and actual state. You can't enable FSD Beta without clicking several checkboxes in clear language saying you have to pay attention every second on the road, you're responsible for single action of a car on the road. And it provides more restriction on a driver compares to regular driving, such as distraction camera monitor, phone monitor, hands off the wheel etc.. It's so boring to see how trolls have no numbers, no real issues but just trying attack the marketing name/aspirational goal.
- MBCook 5y ago
  Ooooh. Checkboxes. That will definitely prevent abuse. Even if the Tesla owner is responsible about it, other people could drive the car and they wouldn’t have to agree to anything. They can go nuts. I’ve seen plenty of videos online too. I have no interest in driving next to a car being driven by a crazy AI that seems to have the driving skill of a 13-year-old playing GTA and not know the rules. I don’t have a Tesla. I was forcibly opted into this program. There is nothing to prevent other people from doing stupid and ridiculous things with this system and seriously injuring or killing me. Heck, they can do the right thing. I’ve seen videos were trying to take over control doesn’t seem to work. Where it tries to drive directly in the traffic in the wrong lane. This is insanely dangerous and I want no part of it but I don’t have any mechanism to stop it but to hope regulators do something. Tesla put MY life on the line.
  - maxdo 5y ago
    They use eye tracking camera, to prevent you from lookin not on the road, sensors of the wheel, and also checking you're not on the phone. They doing way more compares to any car maker to keep you safe as non owner of the tesla. I guess been so emotional you better stay in your basement until Level 4-5 will become a reality.
    - foobiekr 5y ago
      Tesla added the camera eye tracking very late in the game, just like they didn't add driver hands-off wheel detection and enforcement to autopilot until it had been available quite some time. I think this is one of the issues with Tesla FSD - the company basically has had to be forced to take safety seriously repeatedly and has not done so from the outset.
  - Sodman 5y ago
    Similarly, you and I are both forced to share the roads with folks who are impaired in various ways, whether it's declining reflexes, vision, cognitive function - or just straight up drunk driving. As somebody who comes from a country with very strict anti drunk-driving rules (checkpoints randomly on commonly used roads frequently enough to deter it), it blows my mind that I have to share the roads in the US with drivers who think having "just 4 beers" before their 45 minute drive home is fine. Since the US hasn't shown many signs for cracking down on drunk driving, and adding better infrastructure for folks who can no longer drive for various reasons is equally a non-starter at the moment - I'm all in favor of any system that speeds up the arrival of genuinely fully autonomous driving. Tesla hasn't killed or injured anyone using this "FSD beta" program to date, despite a large number of miles driven, so their existing precautions appear to be working. Even in the interim, before we reach fully autonomous driving, "better than the average human driver" is still a huge performance milestone worth aiming for before we start obsessing over "perfect" (Not saying FSD Beta is there yet, but Autopilot on Highways might be).
- thinkmassive 5y ago
  I assume you refer to the invite-only beta with FSD that works on city streets, but Tesla's naming is (intentionally?) very confusing. It would go a long way if Tesla simply renamed the invite-only program to FSD Alpha, and continued referring to "enhanced Autopilot" that's available to everyone for an additional fee as FSD Beta.

paxys 5y ago

If they could roll it out to everyone they would do so in an instant. They cannot though because the system is not ready and needs a lot of testing, which is the point the author is making.

tshaddox 5y ago
Yeah, regardless of this supposed legal incentive, I don’t see any reason why Tesla wouldn’t roll it out to everyone if they thought it was ready for that.
sovnade 5y ago
It's 100% not ready. There's so many videos people are posting about it nearly hitting pedestrians, going the wrong way down a 1 way, nearly going straight into a curb, etc - all of these only stopped by the driver quickly grabbing the wheel and taking control. It also doesn't seem to help that enabling FSD on Tesla makes it use the visual camera only, which seems counterproductive. The ultrasonic sensors seem to be critically important because visuals can be obstructed easier.
- snek_case 5y ago
  > There's so many videos people are posting about it nearly hitting pedestrians Can you post a link to a video of FSD nearly hitting a pedestrian? Because searching on YouTube, I couldn't find a single one.
  - cycomanic 5y ago
    There was a video posted on reddit a couple of days ago. I think it was in San Jose, a number of times it tried to go into the tram lane and once or twice it almost hit pedestrians crossing a road when turning. Maybe that gives you enough information to find the link.
  - sovnade 5y ago
    https://www.loopinsight.com/2021/12/13/drive-around-san-jose-with-teslas-latest-full-self-driving-beta/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=drive-around-san-jose-with-teslas-latest-full-self-driving-beta https://www.loopinsight.com/2021/12/13/drive-around-san-jose...

renzo88 5y ago

>I hope that this person understands his own argument in which case it's hard to believe that he is concerned about safety. I think he understands his own argument. I don't think you don't understand the implications of why they haven't rolled it out.