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The FREND instrument searches for neutrons to map hydrogen content in the Martian soil. FREND revealed an area with an unusually large amount of hydrogen in th
by rkagerer 5y ago
The FREND instrument searches for neutrons to map hydrogen content in the Martian soil.
FREND revealed an area with an unusually large amount of hydrogen in the colossal Valles Marineris canyon system: assuming the hydrogen we see is bound into water molecules, as much as 40% of the near-surface material in this region appears to be water.
How confident are we that hydrogen detected really is water?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Sharlin 5y agoI don't think there are many plausible alternatives, really.
- colechristensen 5y agoThere just aren't alternatives to what it could be. Hydrogen just doesn't get bound up into minerals (unless essentially as water) and not at any great density, and there isn't another plausible substance that would be hanging out in a canyon on mars.
- labster 5y agoIt could be hydrocarbons. We just found oil on on Mars! Black gold, Tharsis tea! Now if only we had an atmosphere to burn it in.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fartcannon 5y agoIsn't that actually one of the terraforming methods proposed?
- malwarebytess 5y agoIf there was ever life on Mars at scale it wouldn't be impossible or unusual to find oil and coal, would it? Or does it degrade on the timescales that would be required for this to be possible? tbc I don't believe there's oil on mars nor do I think it is remotely likely.
- marcosdumay 5y agoHydrocarbons are quite common on planets without life. It's the oxygen in our atmosphere that makes them rare.
- akiselev 5y agoEvidence points to tectonic activity and liquid water on Mars at one point in its history so theoretically, yes. The geological processes that can move fossils deep enough to become fossil fuels could have been present along with the mud slides and sediment that are most favorable for preserving animal remains.
- beowulfey 5y agoEarth’s hydrocarbons are a unique result of the evolution of life here. See the Carboniferous era.
- StevePerkins 5y agoPlanets with confirmed life are a sample size of one. For the moment, having corporeal form is unique to life here.
- beowulfey 5y agoWell, yes, but I was just pointing out that not all life is likely to become hydrocarbons. It was kind of a fluke.
- garmaine 5y agoLife is very likely to be carbon based (what other element makes 4 bonds, as is necessary for 3D structures?). Where life is carbon-based, decaying life in the absence of oxygen produces hydrocarbons.
- varjag 5y agoWhy stop there. It could be an ancient Martian landfill where plastics failed to degrade.
- neltnerb 5y agoHeck, without microbes it could just be Martian mummies.
- nine_k 5y agoWhy burn perfectly good hydrocarbons when you can produce various plastics out of it, for the needs of your growing colony?
- SubiculumCode 5y agowhen plastic on mount Everest was not far enough ;)
- xwolfi 5y agoWe dont have 200 millions years to wait for Mars reforestation, so plastic > wood
- SubiculumCode 5y agoAlso I was making a joke
- hyperpallium2 5y agoAmmonia, NH_3?
- colechristensen 5y agoI’m pretty sure Mars is too warm to have solid surface ammonia
- pomian 5y agovery possible!!!! In fact, the ground temperatures at the rover landing sites swing up during the day and down again during the night, varying by up to 113 degrees Celsius (or 235 degrees Fahrenheit) per Mars day. https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/mission/rover/temperature/ https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/mission/rover/temperature/ Melting (freezing) point 195.42K-77.73°C https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ammonia-d_1413.html https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ammonia-d_1413.html
- colechristensen 5y agoThose temps for the freezing point will be for pressures above the triple point of ammonia, or pressures you’d find on earth. The pressure on mars is too low for liquid ammonia to exist and the freezing/sublimation temperature is more like 180K or -100C And to exist underground in large amounts for millions or billions of years it’s not good enough for temperatures to occasionally be low enough to freeze ammonia, when it was warmer the ammonia would turn into gas and blow away so unless there is a significant local source of ammonia it is highly doubtful that is where the hydrogen comes from.
- BrazzVuvuzela 5y agoIs water on Mars even exciting? We're already quite certain there is a ton of water on Mars... in the form of ice. The exciting discoveries are evidence of liquid water. > The bulk of the northern ice cap consists of water ice; it also has a thin seasonal veneer of dry ice, solid carbon dioxide. Each winter the ice cap grows by adding 1.5 to 2 m of dry ice. > The part of the cap that survives the summer is called the north residual cap and is made of water ice. This water ice is believed to be as much as three kilometers thick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_polar_ice_caps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_polar_ice_caps That's a lot of water!
- gunfighthacksaw 5y agoFor anyone born in the 20th century I’d think so. If you’d have said there was water on mars in 1970 you’d have been met with disbelief. 1980? 1990? Later?
- BrazzVuvuzela 5y agoI think this is a failure of science education more than anything else. The polar ice caps of Mars were first observed in the 17th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mars_observation#Early_telescope_observations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mars_observation#Ea...
- varjag 5y agoIt was observed simultaneously as canals and vegetation were "observed", and roundly discarded by 1970s. Water on Mars remained unconfirmed until this century.
- interroboink 5y agoThough I distinctly remember reading in an encyclopedia from the '70s that certain large dark regions on the Martian surface were believed to be thick vegetation (: I'm not kidding! From [1]: "As recently as the early 1960s, it still seemed possible to a few astronomers that the dark regions had some kind of plant life because they seemed to darken each summer as if plants were growing in response to sunlight." [1] https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/pia02362-the-dark-surfaces-of-mars-mantles-and-sand-sheets https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/pia02362-the-dark-surfaces-o...
- pomian 5y agowhy not methane? CH4
- 8bitsrule 5y agoalcohol!