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The Chinese government has seeped its way into nearly every facet of American life. This is most visible in Disney movies (see: the Mulan and Lion King remakes)

The Chinese government has seeped its way into nearly every facet of American life. This is most visible in Disney movies (see: the Mulan and Lion King remakes) but it is happening to many companies and universities where they use our own greed against us. I hope America will wake up and realize we have fighting a hidden war, but we are so divided I doubt we'll notice until we've lost, if we notice at all.

ddoolin 5y ago
On the surface, this seems like FUD or at least exaggerated. Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. China does have a lot of corporate influence at the upper levels and corporations do pull many of the levers of government here, but on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. Although this topic has been sensationalized a lot, personally I don't think China is as successful as they sometimes seem.
- rackjack 5y ago
  That's fair, I'm just concerned about Chinese global economic dominance.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Their PR and media game is superb.
  - MonkeyClub 5y ago
    I would agree. The British also have excellent game, but they work a lot with film and news. The Chinese have managed comparable results without.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  On an individual level, it would appear that just being from Hong Kong and not China will get you death threats.
  - nneonneo 5y ago
    I feel compelled to clarify this: Hong Kong is part of China, and has been since 1997. Saying that Hong Kong is not part of China is like saying that Texas is not part of the United States because at one point they seceded. These days, Texas has no more right to secede from the US than Hong Kong from China, even if there are people in both territories who would prefer full independence. Consequently, to a Chinese person, hearing "I'm from Hong Kong, not China" would be like hearing "I'm from Texas, not the United States" as an American. Granted, someone saying the latter should never be met with death threats, just like the former!
    - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
      While I more or less agree with you, I think in this particular case using Hong Kong instead of China MIGHT have some validity due to the entirely different system a person grew up in. Saying you are from Hong Kong gives you a ton of information that would be lost versus China
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      Are the current rulers of China related to the Qing dynasty?
      - nneonneo 5y ago
        If you're intending to imply that the British didn't need to hand over Hong Kong because China changed rulers, I'm afraid that's not really how the law works. And, in any case, the negotiation of 1984 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration) between Britain and the PRC set up Hong Kong to become a PRC territory in 1997.
        fartcannon 5y ago
        And I have a piece of paper that says I own part of the moon.
- will4274 5y ago
  Most Americans weren't openly hostile to China until Trump opened his mouth.
- trhway 5y ago
  > Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. I don't think so. Just look at what Americans buy. Money talks. Lip service doesn't count. >on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. the frog just doesn't notice the boiling. For example how discussing Chinese origin of covid got branded as racist in the public mentality - i think that branding is a great PR success pulled by China which as a result turned public attention away from and severely eroded public support for covid origin investigation especially in the earlier days of pandemic when evidence/witnesses may have still been available.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Discussing the Chinese origin of COVID got branded because racists were using it as an excuse to attack Asians in America, including those who weren't of Chinese descent or whose families had immigrated many decades ago. Yes, if you accuse the waitress at a Chinese restaurant of being responsible for COVID, you are racist.
    - trhway 5y ago
      911 also was used as pretext to attack Muslims/MidEasterners in America, yet discussing Afghanistan/Saudi/Al-Qaeda/Islamic extremism origins of the attack didn't get branded as racist. The firm association in the public mind between the attacks and origins, as your comment for example demonstrates, is the part of that great PR success by China.
      - mcguire 5y ago
        Your memory of 2001-2007 or so is very different from mine. I recall the term "raghead", attacks, and the lovely picture of fully armed men in body armor "protesting" a mosque in Dallas. And yes, that was racist.
  - maeil 5y ago
    It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find. Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans is all but taboo in "educated" circles. Same goes for discussing the role the WHO played and all evidence we have as to why it played that role. Any discussion of why this pandemic happened and that the nation where it originated has blocked all independent investigation to investigate this; bringing it up is not done.
- OJFord 5y ago
  > at least weary of China if not openly hostile Given the latter half, I think that's *wary (cautious) rather than 'weary' (fatigued, fed up)? I'm not American, but something I've noticed on YouTube is that 'import' is a euphemism for 'Chinese crap' - probably more prevalent because there's more of a US manufacturing base to begin with, but the funny thing is when it's imported from somewhere else that's respected it's a German tool, or Japanese for example, but 'import' seems to mean 'imported from China', heh. (I'm not claiming I'm above it nor offended by it, just caught my attention because 'import' isn't an adjective to me and the usage amused me. It wouldn't really catch on in the UK I don't think, because so much is 'import' to begin with, whether Chinese or not.)
  - BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
    In years past, Japanese import was considered synonymous with cheap crap. That reputation changed over time, eventually becoming associated with high quality. Chinese imports now having that reputation doesn't really have much to do with how Americans feel about the Chinese government.
  - kag0 5y ago
    As an anecdote in the 90s and 00s "import" cars usually meant Japanese cars, especially ones not available on the US market. This wasn't really a negative connotation, and there was a whole scene for high performance "import tuners". Just interesting to your point that in context "import" implies a specific country.
  - grogenaut 5y ago
    Watch back to the future. Doc brown from the 50s "no wonder it broke it's all from Japan". Marty from 85 says "what do you mean all the best stuff comes from Japan". I remember when Vizio made garbage tvs. This is more of a delayed and earned reputation thing. Also product market fit.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      (as if I haven't seen it..!) Sure, I'm absolutely not saying nothing good's made in China nor especially that that couldn't change. Just noticing others' usage/implication.
gumby 5y ago
This has been the policy of the USA for decades (e.g. pentagon script approval, military subsidies for professional sports (in exchange for an antitrust exemption) etc. Is this really any different? This comment is not intended to praise or support the CCP, but just to provide some context. I think the US government should be staying out of content as well.
- coliveira 5y ago
  You're right, from the point of view of Americans it is OK to influence every aspect of life in other countries, but if the reverse occurs it is the end of the world. Given that China is quickly becoming the richest country of the world, it is just normal they will have more and more influence in American society, just looking from the economic point of view. Consider for example how Japan started having a cultural influence around the world in the 80s. The same will happen with China.
  - gumby 5y ago
    China is quite far from being the richest country in the world by any measure.
    - coliveira 5y ago
      You can fool yourself as long as you want. Just stop reading the news.
      - gumby 5y ago
        I look at the underlying data. The news is full of excitable suggestion because that gets attention. China's managed to lift a huge number of people out of poverty and deserves credit for that. They did it at a terrific cost in human life and rights and they deserve opprobrium for that, in particular for the continued and now increasing level. We have plenty of examples from history that such an approach is not sustainable. Regardless, if you look at the numbers the odds of significant further growth are dubious. China remains quite poor on per capita GDP, even on a PPP basis it is in the lower half of countries. It has an enormous unemployment problem, and a huge demographic overhang. Corruption, false statistics, and cronyism remain dominant in the economy and government, more reminiscent of a small state than a massive one, and all of which make it very difficult to manage large shocks. I'm not saying the PRC is some benign kumbaya entity. But they have deep structural weaknesses that are not discussed much because it's more useful to various people to point elsewhere.
edoceo 5y ago
> use our own greed against us It's terrible but, it's brilliant too. Like, I don't like it but it's also amazing. It makes a confounding effect on how I should feel about these things. It's like, don't hate the player, hate the game? I do hate the game tho.
- nickff 5y ago
  Well, the old saying was that the communists would hang the capitalists with rope sold by the latter to the former. It seems like the capitalists always seem to keep ahead of the communists though. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/
DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
McCarthyist paranoia has seeped itself into nearly every facet of American life.
throwaway21_ 5y ago
You mean you want US to be even more jingoistic? It won't be an easy task for sure as I'm reading propaganda pieces almost every day for a last few years in a places that earlier were almost politics free (ars technica, hn...) - regular new sites not to mention.
- whythre 5y ago
  Supporting the US over China’s regressive regime hardly requires jingoism.
  - drekk 5y ago
    If it requires fighting a war that has been "hidden" it's pretty jingoistic. Especially given the hand-waving everyone does here to call China a despotic autocratic regime despite the US having more prisoners overall and per-capita, and let's not even begin to compare foreign policies. Which country has overthrown more democratically elected governments? I've lived in several impacted by the US.
    - surge 5y ago
      >China a despotic autocratic regime despite the US having more prisoners overall and per-capita You A) don't know that, because stats coming out of China aren't to be trusted and executions and disappearances are common B) are conveniently ignoring the well documented reeducation/concentration camps where the only crime is being a Muslim minority. China is modern day Nazi Germany, they're not even really communist, they have government controlled corporations and operate in a capitalist system. In many ways they're fascist and even revere Hitler in their school teachings. Taiwan at least has socialized healthcare, in China you have to pay for it. If they are "communist" they're doing a shit job of it.

ddoolin 5y ago

On the surface, this seems like FUD or at least exaggerated. Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. China does have a lot of corporate influence at the upper levels and corporations do pull many of the levers of government here, but on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. Although this topic has been sensationalized a lot, personally I don't think China is as successful as they sometimes seem.

rackjack 5y ago
That's fair, I'm just concerned about Chinese global economic dominance.
robbedpeter 5y ago
Their PR and media game is superb.
- MonkeyClub 5y ago
  I would agree. The British also have excellent game, but they work a lot with film and news. The Chinese have managed comparable results without.
fartcannon 5y ago
On an individual level, it would appear that just being from Hong Kong and not China will get you death threats.
- nneonneo 5y ago
  I feel compelled to clarify this: Hong Kong is part of China, and has been since 1997. Saying that Hong Kong is not part of China is like saying that Texas is not part of the United States because at one point they seceded. These days, Texas has no more right to secede from the US than Hong Kong from China, even if there are people in both territories who would prefer full independence. Consequently, to a Chinese person, hearing "I'm from Hong Kong, not China" would be like hearing "I'm from Texas, not the United States" as an American. Granted, someone saying the latter should never be met with death threats, just like the former!
  - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
    While I more or less agree with you, I think in this particular case using Hong Kong instead of China MIGHT have some validity due to the entirely different system a person grew up in. Saying you are from Hong Kong gives you a ton of information that would be lost versus China
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Are the current rulers of China related to the Qing dynasty?
    - nneonneo 5y ago
      If you're intending to imply that the British didn't need to hand over Hong Kong because China changed rulers, I'm afraid that's not really how the law works. And, in any case, the negotiation of 1984 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration) between Britain and the PRC set up Hong Kong to become a PRC territory in 1997.
      - fartcannon 5y ago
        And I have a piece of paper that says I own part of the moon.
will4274 5y ago
Most Americans weren't openly hostile to China until Trump opened his mouth.
trhway 5y ago
> Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. I don't think so. Just look at what Americans buy. Money talks. Lip service doesn't count. >on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. the frog just doesn't notice the boiling. For example how discussing Chinese origin of covid got branded as racist in the public mentality - i think that branding is a great PR success pulled by China which as a result turned public attention away from and severely eroded public support for covid origin investigation especially in the earlier days of pandemic when evidence/witnesses may have still been available.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Discussing the Chinese origin of COVID got branded because racists were using it as an excuse to attack Asians in America, including those who weren't of Chinese descent or whose families had immigrated many decades ago. Yes, if you accuse the waitress at a Chinese restaurant of being responsible for COVID, you are racist.
  - trhway 5y ago
    911 also was used as pretext to attack Muslims/MidEasterners in America, yet discussing Afghanistan/Saudi/Al-Qaeda/Islamic extremism origins of the attack didn't get branded as racist. The firm association in the public mind between the attacks and origins, as your comment for example demonstrates, is the part of that great PR success by China.
    - mcguire 5y ago
      Your memory of 2001-2007 or so is very different from mine. I recall the term "raghead", attacks, and the lovely picture of fully armed men in body armor "protesting" a mosque in Dallas. And yes, that was racist.
- maeil 5y ago
  It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find. Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans is all but taboo in "educated" circles. Same goes for discussing the role the WHO played and all evidence we have as to why it played that role. Any discussion of why this pandemic happened and that the nation where it originated has blocked all independent investigation to investigate this; bringing it up is not done.
OJFord 5y ago
> at least weary of China if not openly hostile Given the latter half, I think that's *wary (cautious) rather than 'weary' (fatigued, fed up)? I'm not American, but something I've noticed on YouTube is that 'import' is a euphemism for 'Chinese crap' - probably more prevalent because there's more of a US manufacturing base to begin with, but the funny thing is when it's imported from somewhere else that's respected it's a German tool, or Japanese for example, but 'import' seems to mean 'imported from China', heh. (I'm not claiming I'm above it nor offended by it, just caught my attention because 'import' isn't an adjective to me and the usage amused me. It wouldn't really catch on in the UK I don't think, because so much is 'import' to begin with, whether Chinese or not.)
- BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
  In years past, Japanese import was considered synonymous with cheap crap. That reputation changed over time, eventually becoming associated with high quality. Chinese imports now having that reputation doesn't really have much to do with how Americans feel about the Chinese government.
- kag0 5y ago
  As an anecdote in the 90s and 00s "import" cars usually meant Japanese cars, especially ones not available on the US market. This wasn't really a negative connotation, and there was a whole scene for high performance "import tuners". Just interesting to your point that in context "import" implies a specific country.
- grogenaut 5y ago
  Watch back to the future. Doc brown from the 50s "no wonder it broke it's all from Japan". Marty from 85 says "what do you mean all the best stuff comes from Japan". I remember when Vizio made garbage tvs. This is more of a delayed and earned reputation thing. Also product market fit.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    (as if I haven't seen it..!) Sure, I'm absolutely not saying nothing good's made in China nor especially that that couldn't change. Just noticing others' usage/implication.

gumby 5y ago

This has been the policy of the USA for decades (e.g. pentagon script approval, military subsidies for professional sports (in exchange for an antitrust exemption) etc. Is this really any different? This comment is not intended to praise or support the CCP, but just to provide some context. I think the US government should be staying out of content as well.

coliveira 5y ago
You're right, from the point of view of Americans it is OK to influence every aspect of life in other countries, but if the reverse occurs it is the end of the world. Given that China is quickly becoming the richest country of the world, it is just normal they will have more and more influence in American society, just looking from the economic point of view. Consider for example how Japan started having a cultural influence around the world in the 80s. The same will happen with China.
- gumby 5y ago
  China is quite far from being the richest country in the world by any measure.
  - coliveira 5y ago
    You can fool yourself as long as you want. Just stop reading the news.
    - gumby 5y ago
      I look at the underlying data. The news is full of excitable suggestion because that gets attention. China's managed to lift a huge number of people out of poverty and deserves credit for that. They did it at a terrific cost in human life and rights and they deserve opprobrium for that, in particular for the continued and now increasing level. We have plenty of examples from history that such an approach is not sustainable. Regardless, if you look at the numbers the odds of significant further growth are dubious. China remains quite poor on per capita GDP, even on a PPP basis it is in the lower half of countries. It has an enormous unemployment problem, and a huge demographic overhang. Corruption, false statistics, and cronyism remain dominant in the economy and government, more reminiscent of a small state than a massive one, and all of which make it very difficult to manage large shocks. I'm not saying the PRC is some benign kumbaya entity. But they have deep structural weaknesses that are not discussed much because it's more useful to various people to point elsewhere.

edoceo 5y ago

> use our own greed against us It's terrible but, it's brilliant too. Like, I don't like it but it's also amazing. It makes a confounding effect on how I should feel about these things. It's like, don't hate the player, hate the game? I do hate the game tho.

nickff 5y ago
Well, the old saying was that the communists would hang the capitalists with rope sold by the latter to the former. It seems like the capitalists always seem to keep ahead of the communists though. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

McCarthyist paranoia has seeped itself into nearly every facet of American life.

throwaway21_ 5y ago

You mean you want US to be even more jingoistic? It won't be an easy task for sure as I'm reading propaganda pieces almost every day for a last few years in a places that earlier were almost politics free (ars technica, hn...) - regular new sites not to mention.

whythre 5y ago
Supporting the US over China’s regressive regime hardly requires jingoism.
- drekk 5y ago
  If it requires fighting a war that has been "hidden" it's pretty jingoistic. Especially given the hand-waving everyone does here to call China a despotic autocratic regime despite the US having more prisoners overall and per-capita, and let's not even begin to compare foreign policies. Which country has overthrown more democratically elected governments? I've lived in several impacted by the US.
  - surge 5y ago
    >China a despotic autocratic regime despite the US having more prisoners overall and per-capita You A) don't know that, because stats coming out of China aren't to be trusted and executions and disappearances are common B) are conveniently ignoring the well documented reeducation/concentration camps where the only crime is being a Muslim minority. China is modern day Nazi Germany, they're not even really communist, they have government controlled corporations and operate in a capitalist system. In many ways they're fascist and even revere Hitler in their school teachings. Taiwan at least has socialized healthcare, in China you have to pay for it. If they are "communist" they're doing a shit job of it.