4 ms·

The paper is here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103521004528?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001910352..

The paper is here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103521004528?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001910352... but it is pay walled. One of the more interesting challenges in creating self sustaining colonies on other planets is the availability of water. And this is another example of how Mars might provide water in a very accessible way (40% by volume is a lot of water :-)) NASA has already pretty much convinced itself that plants could grow in suitably amended martian soil[1][2]. I haven't seen a paper yet on whether or not there is enough solar irradiation for robust photo synthesis (needed for the production of plant sugars) but one could always add grow lights powered by one of the small nuclear power sources[3]. [1] https://www.nasa.gov/feature/can-plants-grow-with-mars-soil https://www.nasa.gov/feature/can-plants-grow-with-mars-soil [2] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138#:~:text=Conclusions.%20Our%20results%20show%20that%20it%20is%20in,in%20full%20soils%20themselves%20remains%20an%20open%20question https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2021/12/06/nasa-is-looking-for-a-few-good-nukes/?sh=1f24602857d4#:~:text=Kilopower%20is%20a%20small%2C%20lightweight%20fission%20power%20system,Security%20Administration%20%28NNSA%29%20laboratory%20in%20partnership%20with%20NASA https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2021/12/06/nasa-is-l....

account-5 5y ago
The link you provided for the paper wasn't paywalled for me, no idea why.
- dougmccune 5y ago
  It’s not paywalled. OP probably saw the name Elsevier and assumed it was paywalled, but it’s open access and licensed CC BY.
  - ChuckMcM 5y ago
    Exactly this.
hinkley 5y ago
Heliostats could work too but might be a challenge with the dust storms. At least at first. What’s the current wisdom on bioremediation of perchlorates? That seems to be the sticking point. We know on earth that tidal zones have been a hotbed of evolution. I have this notion in my head of creating terraforming equipment (specifically atmosphere and water) that buffers its output and releases it in pulses though a transitional zone. Like a marine fish tank. Say at the bottom of a canyon or partially enclosed space. This alternating availability of resources should select for more resilient lines.
snarf21 5y ago
The thing I don't understand is why aren't we building something here on Earth that is underground designed to be a self-sustaining system. It seems like if we can't figure out how to do it here, we have no chance to do it on the Moon or Mars. Mars is cool as a story but we don't have our sh!t together enough to really try.
- Cilvic 5y ago
  I like the idea, are there any benefits from starting under ground or could we just do it even cheaper on the surface?
  - mod 5y ago
    I think some benefits are difficulty (we want to stress test), similarity (we probably build underground on Mars), and a whole lot fewer outside influences (a lot fewer organisms underground).
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  It's another planet, you could suddenly create your own country. It's a billionaire's dream.
- ChuckMcM 5y ago
  It's a good question, the whole "Biosphere" project which you can go visit in Arizona which sought to do something like this. It isn't underground, there really isn't much advantage, and there is a whole lot of expense, in building under ground. So the partial answer is that people are doing this research. Complex interactive systems like this however are very hard to design all at once. One strategy might be to solve individual problems like having a habitat that provides all of its own oxygen and CO2 processing. Then once that is understood have one that can recycle 100% of bio-waste. Then add a long term power supply, then figure out how to make that supply a renewable one. It is a very complex process and each step will reveal new interconnections that need to be dealt with.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
czottmann 5y ago
Archived version: https://archive.ph/unuNw https://archive.ph/unuNw

account-5 5y ago

The link you provided for the paper wasn't paywalled for me, no idea why.

dougmccune 5y ago
It’s not paywalled. OP probably saw the name Elsevier and assumed it was paywalled, but it’s open access and licensed CC BY.
- ChuckMcM 5y ago
  Exactly this.

hinkley 5y ago

Heliostats could work too but might be a challenge with the dust storms. At least at first. What’s the current wisdom on bioremediation of perchlorates? That seems to be the sticking point. We know on earth that tidal zones have been a hotbed of evolution. I have this notion in my head of creating terraforming equipment (specifically atmosphere and water) that buffers its output and releases it in pulses though a transitional zone. Like a marine fish tank. Say at the bottom of a canyon or partially enclosed space. This alternating availability of resources should select for more resilient lines.

snarf21 5y ago

The thing I don't understand is why aren't we building something here on Earth that is underground designed to be a self-sustaining system. It seems like if we can't figure out how to do it here, we have no chance to do it on the Moon or Mars. Mars is cool as a story but we don't have our sh!t together enough to really try.

Cilvic 5y ago
I like the idea, are there any benefits from starting under ground or could we just do it even cheaper on the surface?
- mod 5y ago
  I think some benefits are difficulty (we want to stress test), similarity (we probably build underground on Mars), and a whole lot fewer outside influences (a lot fewer organisms underground).
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
It's another planet, you could suddenly create your own country. It's a billionaire's dream.
ChuckMcM 5y ago
It's a good question, the whole "Biosphere" project which you can go visit in Arizona which sought to do something like this. It isn't underground, there really isn't much advantage, and there is a whole lot of expense, in building under ground. So the partial answer is that people are doing this research. Complex interactive systems like this however are very hard to design all at once. One strategy might be to solve individual problems like having a habitat that provides all of its own oxygen and CO2 processing. Then once that is understood have one that can recycle 100% of bio-waste. Then add a long term power supply, then figure out how to make that supply a renewable one. It is a very complex process and each step will reveal new interconnections that need to be dealt with.
- marcosdumay 5y ago

czottmann 5y ago

Archived version: https://archive.ph/unuNw https://archive.ph/unuNw