5 ms·

I think you're over-literally interpreting what above poster said. Above poster probably doesn't speak Mandarin so their retelling might be missing some nuance.

bllguo 5y ago
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  It's not glossing over, it's a rebuttal. > Western understanding of the rest of the world is severely lacking I would wager that Western countries, on average, have a better view of the world than non-Western countries, if for no other reason than the privileges their wealth and liberalism entail. Do you think the average Russian, African, South American, Chinese, (Yes, I'm aware some of that list is continents, and some is countries) etc. has access to a greater wealth of information and experience with regard to the Rest of the world? Keep in mind I'm not saying this as a point of superiority or anything, just pointing out your lack of a well-grounded point.
  - bllguo 5y ago
    I find it frustrating that so much discussion about other countries is based on hearsay and offhand translation, especially in the case of China where it seems few Western commenters even understand the language, much less the culture. Sure, if you are comparing populations as a whole, but if you are comparing the subsets of educated people from each country that are participating in the global discourse I strongly disagree. There's no point in comparing the average Russian or African or Chinese person. Are we ever interacting with them? Do they drive any policy?
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      > find it frustrating that so much discussion about other countries is based on hearsay and offhand translation It's frustrating when talking about any subject. The problem is, this is how people digest information. They take in pieces and regurgitate it. Hopefully they are open minded enough to take criticism so that over time the regurgitations get more accurate. The discussion is important for everyone, but not everyone is going to know everything at once. As far as grouping together entire populations: Totally agree. There is no point in making sweeping generalizations, which is why I pointed out the parents bad argument. Not only was it a pointless point to make, but it was also wrong. 'Westerns' are no more ignorant about the world than 'non-Westerners'.
      - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        Educated Westerners generally know far less about China than educated Chinese people know about the West. This really shows in conversations about China. Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically ratcheted up in the West (it really began during the Trump administration), and since most people know nothing about China to begin with, they basically believe what they're exposed to in the media. People are operating with such a wildly distorted, wacky view of China that it's nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion about the country.
        BobbyJo 5y ago
        > Educated Westerners generally know far less about China than educated Chinese people know about the West. Source? >Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically ratcheted up in the West (it really began during the Trump administration), and since most people know nothing about China to begin with, they basically believe what they're exposed to in the media. If that's your argument, I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. You don't honestly believe the Chinese media feeds a more accurate view of the world to it's constituents do you? They literally outlaw information, and have what essentially constitutes a CCP controlled national intranet. If we were to rank China against ALL western nations for information and journalism freedom they'd be dead last: https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores Edit: I'd also like to point out that I, as an educated American, have worked with people from 12 different countries, for a number of years each, across 3 companies that have employed me. All within the U.S. borders. How many non-Western countries have such a wonderful amount of diversity?
        DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        > Source? I've interacted extensively with educated people in the West and China. The asymmetry is obvious. Most educated people in the West have almost no clue about China. Most educated Chinese people at least speak English to some degree, they're heavily exposed to Western popular culture, and many use VPNs to get around the Great Firewall. > I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. The news in China is, of course, heavily biased. However, when it comes to coverage of China, the news media in Western countries does a terrible job. Coverage is extremely distorted, and focuses almost exclusively on whatever issues the current US government is pushing (Xinjiang, Taiwan, etc.). Almost anything will be presented in a negative light. China builds a railway in Laos: is China trying to debt-trap Laos? China exports over a billion doses of vaccine: can we trust Chinese vaccines? I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding of China. The picture you'll get will be warped beyond recognition.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    It seems you have no idea about the subject. You just cast a fishing net.
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      Maybe, maybe not, but your comment doesn't really make a case for either in earnest.
      - FpUser 5y ago
        I do not have to make a case. I just told what I think about the validity of your statement.
- coupdejarnac 5y ago
  I don't think jumping down someone's throat for innocent ignorance is too productive. And speaking as someone who has lived in China, their misconceptions of the West are comically bad as well. That's what you get with state controlled media and people learning about the West by watching Friends or Transformers.
  - PastelDeNata 5y ago
    > And speaking as someone who has lived in China, their misconceptions of the West are comically bad as well. Not sure who you met, but a typical young person in China (aged under 40) would know more about the West than a young person in the West would know about China. Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > Not sure who you met, but a typical young person in China (aged under 40) would know more about the West than a young person in the West would know about China. Only 60% of Chinese even attend high school (which isn’t compulsory), you are making a huge claim about the typical young person in China a when China is a huge country. Your claim might be true for comparing young Chinese in the big cities to all young Americans (including in small towns), but that isn’t a very fair comparison. > Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require. VPNs to jump the GFW are incredibly unreliable (they tend to disappear after you pay your yearly fee), most don’t bother.
    - coupdejarnac 5y ago
      Are you speaking from any first-hand experience here? What people know is what they see in tv and movies.
- dang 5y ago
  Please stop taking HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. Believe me, I understand the frustrations of representing a minority/contrarian point of view, but if you vent that frustration by tossing flamebait around, you're not only damaging the container we all depend on here, you're discrediting what you're trying to advocate for. That helps nothing and is not in your interests. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

bllguo 5y ago

BobbyJo 5y ago
It's not glossing over, it's a rebuttal. > Western understanding of the rest of the world is severely lacking I would wager that Western countries, on average, have a better view of the world than non-Western countries, if for no other reason than the privileges their wealth and liberalism entail. Do you think the average Russian, African, South American, Chinese, (Yes, I'm aware some of that list is continents, and some is countries) etc. has access to a greater wealth of information and experience with regard to the Rest of the world? Keep in mind I'm not saying this as a point of superiority or anything, just pointing out your lack of a well-grounded point.
- bllguo 5y ago
  I find it frustrating that so much discussion about other countries is based on hearsay and offhand translation, especially in the case of China where it seems few Western commenters even understand the language, much less the culture. Sure, if you are comparing populations as a whole, but if you are comparing the subsets of educated people from each country that are participating in the global discourse I strongly disagree. There's no point in comparing the average Russian or African or Chinese person. Are we ever interacting with them? Do they drive any policy?
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    > find it frustrating that so much discussion about other countries is based on hearsay and offhand translation It's frustrating when talking about any subject. The problem is, this is how people digest information. They take in pieces and regurgitate it. Hopefully they are open minded enough to take criticism so that over time the regurgitations get more accurate. The discussion is important for everyone, but not everyone is going to know everything at once. As far as grouping together entire populations: Totally agree. There is no point in making sweeping generalizations, which is why I pointed out the parents bad argument. Not only was it a pointless point to make, but it was also wrong. 'Westerns' are no more ignorant about the world than 'non-Westerners'.
    - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
      Educated Westerners generally know far less about China than educated Chinese people know about the West. This really shows in conversations about China. Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically ratcheted up in the West (it really began during the Trump administration), and since most people know nothing about China to begin with, they basically believe what they're exposed to in the media. People are operating with such a wildly distorted, wacky view of China that it's nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion about the country.
      - BobbyJo 5y ago
        > Educated Westerners generally know far less about China than educated Chinese people know about the West. Source? >Anti-Chinese propaganda has dramatically ratcheted up in the West (it really began during the Trump administration), and since most people know nothing about China to begin with, they basically believe what they're exposed to in the media. If that's your argument, I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. You don't honestly believe the Chinese media feeds a more accurate view of the world to it's constituents do you? They literally outlaw information, and have what essentially constitutes a CCP controlled national intranet. If we were to rank China against ALL western nations for information and journalism freedom they'd be dead last: https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores Edit: I'd also like to point out that I, as an educated American, have worked with people from 12 different countries, for a number of years each, across 3 companies that have employed me. All within the U.S. borders. How many non-Western countries have such a wonderful amount of diversity?
        DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        > Source? I've interacted extensively with educated people in the West and China. The asymmetry is obvious. Most educated people in the West have almost no clue about China. Most educated Chinese people at least speak English to some degree, they're heavily exposed to Western popular culture, and many use VPNs to get around the Great Firewall. > I'd like to point out how much more distorted the news is within China than within liberal democratic nations. The news in China is, of course, heavily biased. However, when it comes to coverage of China, the news media in Western countries does a terrible job. Coverage is extremely distorted, and focuses almost exclusively on whatever issues the current US government is pushing (Xinjiang, Taiwan, etc.). Almost anything will be presented in a negative light. China builds a railway in Laos: is China trying to debt-trap Laos? China exports over a billion doses of vaccine: can we trust Chinese vaccines? I don't think watching CNN or reading the NY Times regularly will confer even a basic understanding of China. The picture you'll get will be warped beyond recognition.
- FpUser 5y ago
  It seems you have no idea about the subject. You just cast a fishing net.
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    Maybe, maybe not, but your comment doesn't really make a case for either in earnest.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      I do not have to make a case. I just told what I think about the validity of your statement.
coupdejarnac 5y ago
I don't think jumping down someone's throat for innocent ignorance is too productive. And speaking as someone who has lived in China, their misconceptions of the West are comically bad as well. That's what you get with state controlled media and people learning about the West by watching Friends or Transformers.
- PastelDeNata 5y ago
  > And speaking as someone who has lived in China, their misconceptions of the West are comically bad as well. Not sure who you met, but a typical young person in China (aged under 40) would know more about the West than a young person in the West would know about China. Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > Not sure who you met, but a typical young person in China (aged under 40) would know more about the West than a young person in the West would know about China. Only 60% of Chinese even attend high school (which isn’t compulsory), you are making a huge claim about the typical young person in China a when China is a huge country. Your claim might be true for comparing young Chinese in the big cities to all young Americans (including in small towns), but that isn’t a very fair comparison. > Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require. VPNs to jump the GFW are incredibly unreliable (they tend to disappear after you pay your yearly fee), most don’t bother.
  - coupdejarnac 5y ago
    Are you speaking from any first-hand experience here? What people know is what they see in tv and movies.
dang 5y ago
Please stop taking HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. Believe me, I understand the frustrations of representing a minority/contrarian point of view, but if you vent that frustration by tossing flamebait around, you're not only damaging the container we all depend on here, you're discrediting what you're trying to advocate for. That helps nothing and is not in your interests. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html