4 ms·

This news came out shortly after the UK mandated proof of two vaccine doses (or a negative test, though there's some suspicion this option will be removed like

by makomk 5y ago

This news came out shortly after the UK mandated proof of two vaccine doses (or a negative test, though there's some suspicion this option will be removed like in many other European countries) for access to nightclubs and other large events. It is also not surprising and was expected when the decision was taken. Between this and other recent news I don't think trust in the establishment is exactly high right now.

valine 5y ago
The sooner they mandate a third does the better. Not sure why this news would lower trust in the government, can you elaborate on that?
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Because the promises aren't panning out, and with each stutter step comes another heavy handed proposal (e.g., tracking, vax passports, etc.) In desperation the public has abandoned "trust but verify." Put another way, given the lessons of history, governments should be trusted less, not more. The default shouldn't not be, "Sure, whatever you say."
  - mypalmike 5y ago
    Governments are adapting to new information. If you expect government policy to be based on an all-knowing oracle, of course you are going to be disappointed.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - chiefalchemist 5y ago
      If I said that. If I implied that. Please point it out to me.
      - mypalmike 5y ago
        It's implied by "government promises". What has your government promised wrt covid? Were such failed promises made in bad faith, or due to the fact that covid is a complex and changing global pandemic without clear answers to anyone?
        chiefalchemist 5y ago
        It's not what's said, but what's also said. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-health-pandemics-united-nations-fcf28a83c9352a67e50aa2172eb01a2f https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-heal... The current cycle smells like insanity among other things. There are plenty of questions. "What questions?" is not one of them.
    - twox2 5y ago
      Governments are not known to relinquish control once a new baseline of normal is established... so it does seem that they are adapting to new information only when it serves a certain agenda.
      - mypalmike 5y ago
        Mask and other mandates from the Spanish flu era were relinquished once they were no longer needed. Interestingly, paranoia about such things was as common (and wrong) back then at it is now.
      - freemint 5y ago
        I can only talk for my own country but politicians seem to have been really careful to either couple the laws to an state of emergency which is justified by the pandemic situation or do laws which have a certain due date and need to be renewed by Parlament every 6 monthish. Unlike national security against an invisible threat the absence of CoViD can be shown in which case government even if showing the behaviour you suggest can be more easily pressured into doing the right thing.
- throwaway_2009 5y ago
  So they "mandate" a third dose, nothing happens long term, so they do a fourth lockdown, close some businesses again, do some travel bans, tell people to put things on their faces, nothing happens long term, so they "mandate" a fourth dose, do a fourth lockdown... And then the virus is still everywhere, it's still significantly more dangerous to be outside than it was in February 2020, and now it's a tremendous administrative pain in the arse to do everything, everyone is terrified due to your big marketing campaign, and we all get it anyway repeatedly. But this time, of course, it'll be different.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    > everyone is terrified due to your big marketing campaign Yeah, a lot of people dying tends to terrify people.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - 13years 5y ago
      The data has only trended in one direction since the beginning. The response continues to trend in exactly the opposite direction. This is increasing apparent with Omicron.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
It's suspicious when "the science" suddenly aligns with long standing political dictates. That doesn't mean that it is wrong but certainly is justification for a heavy dose of additional skepticism. Governments have been especially flustered by naturally acquired immunity and now "the science" gives them what they have long desired to be able to dismiss natural immunity. That doesn't mean that "the science" is wrong but it sure is suspicious how often politics proceeds science when throughout most of history, it has reacted to it instead. Omicron will do what it is going to do regardless of what "the science" or politicians have to say on the matter but politicians and those involved with "the science" have no one to blame but themselves for the public skepticism after they've indulged in many "noble" lies and misleading statements throughout the pandemic. The gaslighting after they're called out on previous lies or poorly thought out promises and predictions don't help either. Maybe they can try out "I was wrong" for once and get some of the credibility back instead of constructing even more elaborate excuses for their failures.

by makomk 5y ago

valine 5y ago

The sooner they mandate a third does the better. Not sure why this news would lower trust in the government, can you elaborate on that?

chiefalchemist 5y ago
Because the promises aren't panning out, and with each stutter step comes another heavy handed proposal (e.g., tracking, vax passports, etc.) In desperation the public has abandoned "trust but verify." Put another way, given the lessons of history, governments should be trusted less, not more. The default shouldn't not be, "Sure, whatever you say."
- mypalmike 5y ago
  Governments are adapting to new information. If you expect government policy to be based on an all-knowing oracle, of course you are going to be disappointed.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    If I said that. If I implied that. Please point it out to me.
    - mypalmike 5y ago
      It's implied by "government promises". What has your government promised wrt covid? Were such failed promises made in bad faith, or due to the fact that covid is a complex and changing global pandemic without clear answers to anyone?
      - chiefalchemist 5y ago
        It's not what's said, but what's also said. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-health-pandemics-united-nations-fcf28a83c9352a67e50aa2172eb01a2f https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-heal... The current cycle smells like insanity among other things. There are plenty of questions. "What questions?" is not one of them.
  - twox2 5y ago
    Governments are not known to relinquish control once a new baseline of normal is established... so it does seem that they are adapting to new information only when it serves a certain agenda.
    - mypalmike 5y ago
      Mask and other mandates from the Spanish flu era were relinquished once they were no longer needed. Interestingly, paranoia about such things was as common (and wrong) back then at it is now.
    - freemint 5y ago
      I can only talk for my own country but politicians seem to have been really careful to either couple the laws to an state of emergency which is justified by the pandemic situation or do laws which have a certain due date and need to be renewed by Parlament every 6 monthish. Unlike national security against an invisible threat the absence of CoViD can be shown in which case government even if showing the behaviour you suggest can be more easily pressured into doing the right thing.
throwaway_2009 5y ago
So they "mandate" a third dose, nothing happens long term, so they do a fourth lockdown, close some businesses again, do some travel bans, tell people to put things on their faces, nothing happens long term, so they "mandate" a fourth dose, do a fourth lockdown... And then the virus is still everywhere, it's still significantly more dangerous to be outside than it was in February 2020, and now it's a tremendous administrative pain in the arse to do everything, everyone is terrified due to your big marketing campaign, and we all get it anyway repeatedly. But this time, of course, it'll be different.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  > everyone is terrified due to your big marketing campaign Yeah, a lot of people dying tends to terrify people.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 13years 5y ago
    The data has only trended in one direction since the beginning. The response continues to trend in exactly the opposite direction. This is increasing apparent with Omicron.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

It's suspicious when "the science" suddenly aligns with long standing political dictates. That doesn't mean that it is wrong but certainly is justification for a heavy dose of additional skepticism. Governments have been especially flustered by naturally acquired immunity and now "the science" gives them what they have long desired to be able to dismiss natural immunity. That doesn't mean that "the science" is wrong but it sure is suspicious how often politics proceeds science when throughout most of history, it has reacted to it instead. Omicron will do what it is going to do regardless of what "the science" or politicians have to say on the matter but politicians and those involved with "the science" have no one to blame but themselves for the public skepticism after they've indulged in many "noble" lies and misleading statements throughout the pandemic. The gaslighting after they're called out on previous lies or poorly thought out promises and predictions don't help either. Maybe they can try out "I was wrong" for once and get some of the credibility back instead of constructing even more elaborate excuses for their failures.