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The biggest gun manufacturer you can buy stock in is Ruger (RGR) with a market cap of 1.17B. Add Smith & Wesson and you're at 2B. Throw in Vista Outdoors which

The biggest gun manufacturer you can buy stock in is Ruger (RGR) with a market cap of 1.17B. Add Smith & Wesson and you're at 2B. Throw in Vista Outdoors which owns many of the top US ammo brands (plus some minor firearm and accessory brands) and you can get the total up to 4.3B. I'll multiply that by 10 to guesstimate privately held companies, local gun stores, and the rest of the long tail. So let's say we're at $43 billion for the whole gun industry in the US. Isn't that kind of podunk scale for an industry to have a rock solid hold on US politics? Snapchat alone is valued at $72B. Ford is $80B. Pfizer is $330B. Dollar General is $51B. Heck, Office Depot is worth more than S&W or Ruger.

klyrs 5y ago
Yeah, that's weird in perspective. Snapchat's valuation doesn't give them buying power, but Apple has nearly 200B cash on hand -- they could theoretically buy and close down all of these manufacturers and test the hypothesis that Big Gun is causing all the shootings.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  Theoretically, could Apple buy S&W and…just shut it down? Would the government allow it? Curious…
  - madengr 5y ago
    Well, I'd use the $ from the sale to start a new gun company.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    I imagine that if they bought them all at the same time, it would be seen as anticompetitive. But if they bought them serially, and shut each down before acquiring the next, would that skirt the law? Curious indeed.
    - colejohnson66 5y ago
      From my non-lawyer understanding: the Sherman Antitrust Act and any further bills/amendments aren't exactly explicit on what it means to be "anticompetitive" because it depends on the circumstances, and the writers wanted to allow the definition to adapt to changing circumstances. Regardless of if they buy them all at once, or buy and shutting them down serially, it's still arguably "anticompetitive". It's ultimately up to the courts to decide (if the FTC presses charges).
  - beerandt 5y ago
    Most arms manufacturers have contracts with the government, including contracts to operate govt-owned ammunition factories. Even smaller companies that don't make a product with a major govt/ military contract often have contracts as secondary suppliers of 3rd party or military spec'd parts, like scopes, mounts, triggers, etc. A buyer could shut down a company that holds such a contract, but then it would just go back up for public bid. Additionally, military standards for ammo are very high, and companies make money selling "factory seconds" (that don't meet military qa/qc, but are otherwise fine) to the public, which is an included perk of these govt contracts. And isn't a negligible fraction of required production. So even a hypothetical buyer that would meet its contractual obligation to the govt would do so at an additional cost compared a company selling seconds and surplus manufacturing capacity. In short, the market won't change without major policy change, no matter what major players might be hypothetically bought and shut down.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    Sell consumers guns at silly prices, but only works if you hold it correctly...
- katbyte 5y ago
  as long as there is a market for guns another company will just step into its place. Much like as long as there is a market for drugs new dealers step up fast as you can arrest them.
- pgwhalen 5y ago
  > Snapchat's valuation doesn't give them buying power This isn't true in practice. Sure, company stock is not as great as the almighty US dollar, but can be used to purchase other companies, and its valuation directly affects how much cash the company can raise.
krapp 5y ago
>Isn't that kind of podunk scale for an industry to have a rock solid hold on US politics? Not when a Constitutional Amendment makes that industry "too big to fail" because its thesis on the necessity of the right to keep and bear arms depends on there being an industry manufacturing arms to begin with (at least at modern scale,) and when the industry overwhelmingly supports one political party, driving animosity with fear-based rhetoric against the other. You just don't have the same intersection of identity politics, culture and even religion with any other industry in the US that you do with guns, even if the money spent elsewhere is greater.
- nradov 5y ago
  The individual right to keep and bear arms is a natural right of all free people. It doesn't depend on the existence of the small arms industry. When the US Constitution was written there was hardly even an industry; most firearms were craft built.
  - jaywalk 5y ago
    If what you're saying were true, it would mean that manufacturing guns and/or ammunition for anything other than personal use could be made illegal without running afoul of the 2nd Amendment. Which is absurd.
    - SQueeeeeL 5y ago
      This entire thread is why gun control constantly keeps existing as an issue, you two people who should be political allies are now splitting hairs over relatively minor issues compared to the cost of healthcare and wage stagnation
    - bumby 5y ago
      Apparently, this can be pursued at the State level, so it may not be unconstitutional. https://malegislature.gov/Bills/192/HD4192/Cosponsor https://malegislature.gov/Bills/192/HD4192/Cosponsor
  - Maursault 5y ago
gruez 5y ago
>Isn't that kind of podunk scale for an industry to have a rock solid hold on US politics? relevant: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/18/too-much-dark-money-in-almonds/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/18/too-much-dark-money-in... >all donations to all candidates, all lobbying, all think tanks, all advocacy organizations, the Washington Post, Vox, Mic, Mashable, Gawker, and Tumblr, combined, are still worth a little bit less than the almond industry. And Musk could buy them all.)
- xapata 5y ago
  Good article. It's amusing how one throw-away statement didn't hold up: > As rich as Elon Musk is, he’s only one of five hundred billionaires, and some of the others are even richer.
Zircom 5y ago
I remember reading an article on how relatively cheap it is to "buy" politicians, on the order of just a hundred thousand dollars of donations in some cases, for favorable votes on relevant bills and whatnot. I would assume if normal,everyday citizens started banding together to buy votes the corporations would up the ante and price us out pretty quickly, but as things stand right now there's no point without competition. Power of the free market baby!
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  It "costs" that much because that's just the monetary value. The value of the connections required to get that dinner is where the real cost is.

klyrs 5y ago

Yeah, that's weird in perspective. Snapchat's valuation doesn't give them buying power, but Apple has nearly 200B cash on hand -- they could theoretically buy and close down all of these manufacturers and test the hypothesis that Big Gun is causing all the shootings.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
Theoretically, could Apple buy S&W and…just shut it down? Would the government allow it? Curious…
- madengr 5y ago
  Well, I'd use the $ from the sale to start a new gun company.
- klyrs 5y ago
  I imagine that if they bought them all at the same time, it would be seen as anticompetitive. But if they bought them serially, and shut each down before acquiring the next, would that skirt the law? Curious indeed.
  - colejohnson66 5y ago
    From my non-lawyer understanding: the Sherman Antitrust Act and any further bills/amendments aren't exactly explicit on what it means to be "anticompetitive" because it depends on the circumstances, and the writers wanted to allow the definition to adapt to changing circumstances. Regardless of if they buy them all at once, or buy and shutting them down serially, it's still arguably "anticompetitive". It's ultimately up to the courts to decide (if the FTC presses charges).
- beerandt 5y ago
  Most arms manufacturers have contracts with the government, including contracts to operate govt-owned ammunition factories. Even smaller companies that don't make a product with a major govt/ military contract often have contracts as secondary suppliers of 3rd party or military spec'd parts, like scopes, mounts, triggers, etc. A buyer could shut down a company that holds such a contract, but then it would just go back up for public bid. Additionally, military standards for ammo are very high, and companies make money selling "factory seconds" (that don't meet military qa/qc, but are otherwise fine) to the public, which is an included perk of these govt contracts. And isn't a negligible fraction of required production. So even a hypothetical buyer that would meet its contractual obligation to the govt would do so at an additional cost compared a company selling seconds and surplus manufacturing capacity. In short, the market won't change without major policy change, no matter what major players might be hypothetically bought and shut down.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  Sell consumers guns at silly prices, but only works if you hold it correctly...
katbyte 5y ago
as long as there is a market for guns another company will just step into its place. Much like as long as there is a market for drugs new dealers step up fast as you can arrest them.
pgwhalen 5y ago
> Snapchat's valuation doesn't give them buying power This isn't true in practice. Sure, company stock is not as great as the almighty US dollar, but can be used to purchase other companies, and its valuation directly affects how much cash the company can raise.

krapp 5y ago

>Isn't that kind of podunk scale for an industry to have a rock solid hold on US politics? Not when a Constitutional Amendment makes that industry "too big to fail" because its thesis on the necessity of the right to keep and bear arms depends on there being an industry manufacturing arms to begin with (at least at modern scale,) and when the industry overwhelmingly supports one political party, driving animosity with fear-based rhetoric against the other. You just don't have the same intersection of identity politics, culture and even religion with any other industry in the US that you do with guns, even if the money spent elsewhere is greater.

nradov 5y ago
The individual right to keep and bear arms is a natural right of all free people. It doesn't depend on the existence of the small arms industry. When the US Constitution was written there was hardly even an industry; most firearms were craft built.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  If what you're saying were true, it would mean that manufacturing guns and/or ammunition for anything other than personal use could be made illegal without running afoul of the 2nd Amendment. Which is absurd.
  - SQueeeeeL 5y ago
    This entire thread is why gun control constantly keeps existing as an issue, you two people who should be political allies are now splitting hairs over relatively minor issues compared to the cost of healthcare and wage stagnation
  - bumby 5y ago
    Apparently, this can be pursued at the State level, so it may not be unconstitutional. https://malegislature.gov/Bills/192/HD4192/Cosponsor https://malegislature.gov/Bills/192/HD4192/Cosponsor
- Maursault 5y ago

gruez 5y ago

>Isn't that kind of podunk scale for an industry to have a rock solid hold on US politics? relevant: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/18/too-much-dark-money-in-almonds/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/18/too-much-dark-money-in... >all donations to all candidates, all lobbying, all think tanks, all advocacy organizations, the Washington Post, Vox, Mic, Mashable, Gawker, and Tumblr, combined, are still worth a little bit less than the almond industry. And Musk could buy them all.)

xapata 5y ago
Good article. It's amusing how one throw-away statement didn't hold up: > As rich as Elon Musk is, he’s only one of five hundred billionaires, and some of the others are even richer.

Zircom 5y ago

I remember reading an article on how relatively cheap it is to "buy" politicians, on the order of just a hundred thousand dollars of donations in some cases, for favorable votes on relevant bills and whatnot. I would assume if normal,everyday citizens started banding together to buy votes the corporations would up the ante and price us out pretty quickly, but as things stand right now there's no point without competition. Power of the free market baby!

colejohnson66 5y ago
It "costs" that much because that's just the monetary value. The value of the connections required to get that dinner is where the real cost is.