7 ms·

China stealing intellectual property? If only we could have seen this coming!

c0balt 5y ago
Not like US companies would be any better. They usually just take more care of hiding it, cause you know, cause you know lawsuits.
- adventured 5y ago
  US (and European) companies are typically a lot better about it, precisely because they fear lawsuits, they fear the consequences. China and its large companies don't fear lawsuits the way US corporations do. That's how Jack Ma was able to steal Alipay from Yahoo shareholders and laugh all the way to the bank, there were no consequences to worry about. It's why Yahoo capitulated in dealing with Alibaba as a major shareholder, they knew the end result would have been their ownership stake could just be zero'd out at any time. That's why China can arbitrarily point at Didi and tell them to delist, regardless of what it does to foreign shareholders - there's nothing to worry about, there will be no meaningful consequences. You can't get at them domestically if they don't want you to, because they're a nation that operates by the shielded, arbitrary dictate of the CCP rather than laws, and nearly everyone is afraid of their retaliation (including the richest corporations in the world like Apple). Nobody much fears the US will retaliate the way China does. That's why the EU has been pounding US tech companies with mega fines, and wouldn't dare behave that way toward China. It's why the green virtue signalers are so very scared to publicly lambast China, and they'll harangue the US and EU all day. It's why the NBA will intentionally ignore any and all atrocities of China (they're intensely terrified to utter even the slightest of negative words toward China), yet they have almost zero fear of jabbing the US 24/7 - it's because for the most part nobody is afraid of the US.
  - throwaway473825 5y ago
    The Swedish bank oligopoly once illegally used Moxie Marlinespike's GPL code in their closed-source app: https://mobile.twitter.com/moxie/status/530252445725642752 https://mobile.twitter.com/moxie/status/530252445725642752 They even refused to get in touch. Why would they when they have most Swedish political parties in their pocket? And that's in one of the world's least corrupt countries.
    - gunapologist99 5y ago
      > Why would they when they have most Swedish political parties in their pocket? And that's in one of the world's least corrupt countries. Political parties in your pocket literally defines political corruption.
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
I don't think this is unique to China lol. Organisations around the globe steal IP all the time.
- ironmagma 5y ago
  Until they get caught.
  - randomluck040 5y ago
    It won’t change if it’s not prosecuted.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      In what court that protects IP and has jurisdiction in China would one file that lawsuit?
      - randomluck040 5y ago
        Good point and as expected, I have no idea. The question is if I have to file the lawsuit in China. My knowledge of law goes towards zero so I can’t even „armchair lawyer“ it. However, the question would be if it was possible to file the lawsuit in a country where TikTok has a headquarter.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- symlinkk 5y ago
  It happens a lot more in China though
- KoftaBob 5y ago
  It's not unique to China, but it's particularly prolific in China. One of the major reasons for the US tariffs against China was pressure for them to actually respect IP.
BusyLurker3K 5y ago
This is a horrible take. A Chinese company stealing IP is very different from China stealing IP. Google was caught using IP from Sogou for its pinyin IME, but we don't say America stealing IP.
- Lhiw 5y ago
  If you think the CCP doesn't have a hand in every major company or export you're naive.
- criddell 5y ago
  ByteDance is partially controlled by the government so I don't think your Google analogy is a good one. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-17/beijing-tightens-grip-on-bytedance-with-rare-china-board-seat https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-17/beijing-t... https://qz.com/1788836/targeting-tiktoks-privacy-alone-misses-a-much-larger-point/ https://qz.com/1788836/targeting-tiktoks-privacy-alone-misse...
  - pphysch 5y ago
    - criddell 5y ago
      Yes, I honestly think Washington doesn't exercise similar influence over Google or other American companies. CNN likes to pop up a PIP view of what's being broadcast in China when they talk about things that embarrass the Chinese government. When they start talking about Peng Shuai it takes about two seconds before the Chinese broadcast becomes a test pattern. When's the last time you saw a test pattern when watching a foreign news channel?
      - pphysch 5y ago
        If you want to uncritically believe everything US establishment media says about enemies of the US establishment, that is your problem.
jetsetgo 5y ago
Like American companies leeching off immigrants is any different
dang 5y ago
"Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- pshushereba 5y ago
  My comment doesn't meet any of this criteria. The original article was about a Chinese company's unauthorized fork of OBS. It's semantics whether or not you consider an "unauthorized fork" as stealing, but I certainly do. So it's neither unrelated or a generic tangent, as it relates to intellectual property theft. It's beyond question both that China as a country is known for stealing intellectual property, and that Chinese companies work closely with the CCP. In the introduction of The Wires Of War by Jacob Helberg, he cites a statistic that estimates that "Chinese theft of intellectual property costs Americans anywhere from $225 billion to $600 Billion every year..."
  - xvector 5y ago
    Do you seriously think the Googles and Apples of the US have not used GPL code in commercial products, ever? Yikes. All I see is a comment that teeters on the brink of racism and now you're trying to backtrack.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Do you have any examples where Google or Apple have been discovered to violate GPL? AFAIK, Google outright bans GPL usage internally for the majority of things, and it's well-documented that Apple almost exclusively uses BSD-licensed tooling.
  - dang 5y ago
    It was a cheap and unsubstantive drive-by provocation on an inflammatory topic. Of course it meets the criteria—it's exactly the sort of thing the guidelines are asking you not to post here. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Not like US companies would be any better. They usually just take more care of hiding it, cause you know, cause you know lawsuits.

adventured 5y ago
US (and European) companies are typically a lot better about it, precisely because they fear lawsuits, they fear the consequences. China and its large companies don't fear lawsuits the way US corporations do. That's how Jack Ma was able to steal Alipay from Yahoo shareholders and laugh all the way to the bank, there were no consequences to worry about. It's why Yahoo capitulated in dealing with Alibaba as a major shareholder, they knew the end result would have been their ownership stake could just be zero'd out at any time. That's why China can arbitrarily point at Didi and tell them to delist, regardless of what it does to foreign shareholders - there's nothing to worry about, there will be no meaningful consequences. You can't get at them domestically if they don't want you to, because they're a nation that operates by the shielded, arbitrary dictate of the CCP rather than laws, and nearly everyone is afraid of their retaliation (including the richest corporations in the world like Apple). Nobody much fears the US will retaliate the way China does. That's why the EU has been pounding US tech companies with mega fines, and wouldn't dare behave that way toward China. It's why the green virtue signalers are so very scared to publicly lambast China, and they'll harangue the US and EU all day. It's why the NBA will intentionally ignore any and all atrocities of China (they're intensely terrified to utter even the slightest of negative words toward China), yet they have almost zero fear of jabbing the US 24/7 - it's because for the most part nobody is afraid of the US.
- throwaway473825 5y ago
  The Swedish bank oligopoly once illegally used Moxie Marlinespike's GPL code in their closed-source app: https://mobile.twitter.com/moxie/status/530252445725642752 https://mobile.twitter.com/moxie/status/530252445725642752 They even refused to get in touch. Why would they when they have most Swedish political parties in their pocket? And that's in one of the world's least corrupt countries.
  - gunapologist99 5y ago
    > Why would they when they have most Swedish political parties in their pocket? And that's in one of the world's least corrupt countries. Political parties in your pocket literally defines political corruption.

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

I don't think this is unique to China lol. Organisations around the globe steal IP all the time.

ironmagma 5y ago
Until they get caught.
- randomluck040 5y ago
  It won’t change if it’s not prosecuted.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    In what court that protects IP and has jurisdiction in China would one file that lawsuit?
    - randomluck040 5y ago
      Good point and as expected, I have no idea. The question is if I have to file the lawsuit in China. My knowledge of law goes towards zero so I can’t even „armchair lawyer“ it. However, the question would be if it was possible to file the lawsuit in a country where TikTok has a headquarter.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
symlinkk 5y ago
It happens a lot more in China though
KoftaBob 5y ago
It's not unique to China, but it's particularly prolific in China. One of the major reasons for the US tariffs against China was pressure for them to actually respect IP.

BusyLurker3K 5y ago

This is a horrible take. A Chinese company stealing IP is very different from China stealing IP. Google was caught using IP from Sogou for its pinyin IME, but we don't say America stealing IP.

Lhiw 5y ago
If you think the CCP doesn't have a hand in every major company or export you're naive.
criddell 5y ago
ByteDance is partially controlled by the government so I don't think your Google analogy is a good one. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-17/beijing-tightens-grip-on-bytedance-with-rare-china-board-seat https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-17/beijing-t... https://qz.com/1788836/targeting-tiktoks-privacy-alone-misses-a-much-larger-point/ https://qz.com/1788836/targeting-tiktoks-privacy-alone-misse...
- pphysch 5y ago
  - criddell 5y ago
    Yes, I honestly think Washington doesn't exercise similar influence over Google or other American companies. CNN likes to pop up a PIP view of what's being broadcast in China when they talk about things that embarrass the Chinese government. When they start talking about Peng Shuai it takes about two seconds before the Chinese broadcast becomes a test pattern. When's the last time you saw a test pattern when watching a foreign news channel?
    - pphysch 5y ago
      If you want to uncritically believe everything US establishment media says about enemies of the US establishment, that is your problem.

jetsetgo 5y ago

Like American companies leeching off immigrants is any different

dang 5y ago

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pshushereba 5y ago
My comment doesn't meet any of this criteria. The original article was about a Chinese company's unauthorized fork of OBS. It's semantics whether or not you consider an "unauthorized fork" as stealing, but I certainly do. So it's neither unrelated or a generic tangent, as it relates to intellectual property theft. It's beyond question both that China as a country is known for stealing intellectual property, and that Chinese companies work closely with the CCP. In the introduction of The Wires Of War by Jacob Helberg, he cites a statistic that estimates that "Chinese theft of intellectual property costs Americans anywhere from $225 billion to $600 Billion every year..."
- xvector 5y ago
  Do you seriously think the Googles and Apples of the US have not used GPL code in commercial products, ever? Yikes. All I see is a comment that teeters on the brink of racism and now you're trying to backtrack.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Do you have any examples where Google or Apple have been discovered to violate GPL? AFAIK, Google outright bans GPL usage internally for the majority of things, and it's well-documented that Apple almost exclusively uses BSD-licensed tooling.
- dang 5y ago
  It was a cheap and unsubstantive drive-by provocation on an inflammatory topic. Of course it meets the criteria—it's exactly the sort of thing the guidelines are asking you not to post here. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html