5 ms·

Agreed. But the sad state of the world now is that many are still trying to figure out how to score political points. The virus that hit us in March 2020 was ba

by zeven7 5y ago

Agreed. But the sad state of the world now is that many are still trying to figure out how to score political points. The virus that hit us in March 2020 was bad, but it's not March 2020 anymore. We need to move on as a society.

chinathrow 5y ago
> We need to move on as a society. Move on to what? Close doors at hospitals and deny help to those in need? What exactly is this place some people want to "move on to" exactly during a f*cking, unsolved pandemic? Edit: This also means unsolved to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjU6zwL_4GU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjU6zwL_4GU https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/modelling-suggests-rapid-spread-omicron-england/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/modelling-suggests-ra...
- refurb 5y ago
  Treat it like the flu? ICUs got overwhelmed in the past due to flu.
  - toolz 5y ago
    I'll edit with a link once I'm on desktop but there was a study in 2013 that showed ICUs are at max capacity 16% of the time in the U.S. the healthcare collapse panic was and has always been F.U.D. - during peak pandemic we actually terminated tons of healthcare worker positions reversing a growing trend in that sector mid-pandemic. Now we're decreasing hospital bed capacity and some places like Colorado. The hospital's aren't overwhelmed, they're overstressed by FUD and regulations forcing them to stop elective procedures among other stressors.
    - toolz 5y ago
      sorry forgot to edit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3840149/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3840149/
    - oxymoran 5y ago
      Exactly. It’s analogous to why California and New York are now worried about not having enough energy after closing multiple nuclear power plants.
  - NoGravitas 5y ago
    Coincidentally, total US deaths from COVID-19 recently surpassed the highest estimates of US deaths from the 1918-1920 influenza pandemic.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Isn’t that related to the USA having much more people in 2020 than 1920?
    - mizzack 5y ago
      Population is over 3x what it was in 1918. Your argument framed relatively instead of absolutely: "COVID has only killed a third as many Americans as the Spanish flu"
    - hpoe 5y ago
      Well I'd love a source on that but even if true the population of the IS during that time was only 103 million so %-wise that still is still only 1/3 Sauce: https://alltrendsonline.com/what-was-the-population-of-the-united-states-in-1918/ https://alltrendsonline.com/what-was-the-population-of-the-u...
    - refurb 5y ago
      Well our population is 3x higher but beyond that, I’d love to see the long term trend in deaths. I assume (based on other countries data) that we’re basically accelerating deaths in the 80+ year old group, heavily weighed to the sick. So basically same as the flu in 2018 when 100,000 Americans died. If 5 years from now we see a dip in deaths we’ll know we didn’t kill of a segment of health in population but rather accelerated the deaths of the morbid elderly by a year or two. Not to say those deaths aren’t tragic but it’s very different than 800,000 deaths of people j the prime of their lives.
- zeven7 5y ago
  Which hospitals in the US are overwhelmed? Keep the hospitals open, treat people who are sick, give vaccines to people who will accept them. We've had this vaccine for about a year now. Either people who are vaccinated should return to their lives or this vaccine isn't very helpful.
  - Steltek 5y ago
    Massachusetts has cut routine procedures back 50% and is reserving Covid treatments exclusively for the unvaccinated+. The anti-vax crowd is absolutely dragging this out and causing measurable harm for the rest of us who want to see the end of this. If you're willfully unvaccinated, society owes you nothing. +: And IC people, which is effectively involuntarily unvaccinated.
    - NoblePublius 5y ago
      The “anti vax crowd” is disproportionately people of color and immigrants who don’t trust the medical industry so your viewpoint here is highly racist and discriminatory. You have been warned.
  - chinathrow 5y ago
    I am not from the US and never talked about the US.
    - zeven7 5y ago
      Okay, well what I say refers to the US which has had general availability of the vaccine for a long time now. I would not argue places where people haven't had access to the vaccine should go back to normal yet.
  - tzs 5y ago
    > Which hospitals in the US are overwhelmed? A small sample: https://khn.org/news/article/ambulance-resources-911-demand-paramedics-busy-with-patient-transfers-pandemic-fills-hospitals/ https://khn.org/news/article/ambulance-resources-911-demand-... https://www.yorkdispatch.com/story/news/2021/12/16/york-county-logs-one-new-covid-19-death-monday-schools-surpass-2-200-cases/8924154002/ https://www.yorkdispatch.com/story/news/2021/12/16/york-coun... https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/12/16/massachusetts-health-workers-tell-legislators-theyre-exhausted-and-overwhelmed https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/12/16/massachusett... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/health-care-workers-minnesota-are-overwhelmed-heartbroken-executives-s-rcna8649 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/health-care-workers-min... https://www.wmur.com/article/new-hampshire-north-country-hospitals-overwhelmed-covid-19/38518829 https://www.wmur.com/article/new-hampshire-north-country-hos... https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/12/14/covid-surge https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/12/14/covid-sur... https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/12/15/covid-19-overwhelmed-cincinnati-hospitals-may-mean-some-care-gets-delayed/8909240002/ https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/12/15/covid-19-ov... https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/12/15/salem-massachusetts-hospital-staff-shortage/ https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/12/15/salem-massachusetts-h... https://wsbt.com/news/local/memorial-hospital-overwhelmed-at-125-capacity https://wsbt.com/news/local/memorial-hospital-overwhelmed-at...
- VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
  You seem to have fallen into a weird and frustrating space on this website. I sometimes wonder how the mentality degenerates like this on an ostensibly highly educated platform.
- jMyles 5y ago
  > during a f*cking, unsolved pandemic What is an "unsolved" pandemic? And what statistical features of endemic equilibrium do you view as sufficiently absent to judge that this pathogen is still pandemic rather than endemic?
  - chinathrow 5y ago
    I don't know in what country you reside in but where I live (somewhere in Europe), we have way too many patients on the ICU and way too many other patients in hospital care. And we have way too many operations delayed due shortage of ICU beds. I call this unsolved.
- NoblePublius 5y ago
  Vaccines are freely available and highly effective against severe disease. The pandemic IS solved. Might also help to remember that NYC built 10,000 ICU beds in five days (that were never used). Our ability to surge hospital capacity is unparalleled. We put men on the moon, FFS.
  - Steltek 5y ago
    > Might also help to remember that NYC built 10,000 ICU beds in five days (that were never used). Our ability to surge hospital capacity is unparalleled. This is not what people mean by "beds". It's adequate staffing ratios. In March 2020, there were few hotspots in the country and it's not at all comparable to the situation today. Also, you're being very obtuse and deflective in this thread, bordering on misinformation.
  - rrock 5y ago
    Exponential growth easily crushes any attempts to surge capacity.
- oxymoran 5y ago
  Then why are we forcing nurses that have already had covid to be vaccinated or face termination??? That makes zero sense during a f*cling unsolved pandemic.
- carlivar 5y ago
  Move on from making children wear masks for 8 hours per day.

by zeven7 5y ago

chinathrow 5y ago

> We need to move on as a society. Move on to what? Close doors at hospitals and deny help to those in need? What exactly is this place some people want to "move on to" exactly during a f*cking, unsolved pandemic? Edit: This also means unsolved to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjU6zwL_4GU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjU6zwL_4GU https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/modelling-suggests-rapid-spread-omicron-england/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/modelling-suggests-ra...

refurb 5y ago
Treat it like the flu? ICUs got overwhelmed in the past due to flu.
- toolz 5y ago
  I'll edit with a link once I'm on desktop but there was a study in 2013 that showed ICUs are at max capacity 16% of the time in the U.S. the healthcare collapse panic was and has always been F.U.D. - during peak pandemic we actually terminated tons of healthcare worker positions reversing a growing trend in that sector mid-pandemic. Now we're decreasing hospital bed capacity and some places like Colorado. The hospital's aren't overwhelmed, they're overstressed by FUD and regulations forcing them to stop elective procedures among other stressors.
  - toolz 5y ago
    sorry forgot to edit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3840149/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3840149/
  - oxymoran 5y ago
    Exactly. It’s analogous to why California and New York are now worried about not having enough energy after closing multiple nuclear power plants.
- NoGravitas 5y ago
  Coincidentally, total US deaths from COVID-19 recently surpassed the highest estimates of US deaths from the 1918-1920 influenza pandemic.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Isn’t that related to the USA having much more people in 2020 than 1920?
  - mizzack 5y ago
    Population is over 3x what it was in 1918. Your argument framed relatively instead of absolutely: "COVID has only killed a third as many Americans as the Spanish flu"
  - hpoe 5y ago
    Well I'd love a source on that but even if true the population of the IS during that time was only 103 million so %-wise that still is still only 1/3 Sauce: https://alltrendsonline.com/what-was-the-population-of-the-united-states-in-1918/ https://alltrendsonline.com/what-was-the-population-of-the-u...
  - refurb 5y ago
    Well our population is 3x higher but beyond that, I’d love to see the long term trend in deaths. I assume (based on other countries data) that we’re basically accelerating deaths in the 80+ year old group, heavily weighed to the sick. So basically same as the flu in 2018 when 100,000 Americans died. If 5 years from now we see a dip in deaths we’ll know we didn’t kill of a segment of health in population but rather accelerated the deaths of the morbid elderly by a year or two. Not to say those deaths aren’t tragic but it’s very different than 800,000 deaths of people j the prime of their lives.
zeven7 5y ago
Which hospitals in the US are overwhelmed? Keep the hospitals open, treat people who are sick, give vaccines to people who will accept them. We've had this vaccine for about a year now. Either people who are vaccinated should return to their lives or this vaccine isn't very helpful.
- Steltek 5y ago
  Massachusetts has cut routine procedures back 50% and is reserving Covid treatments exclusively for the unvaccinated+. The anti-vax crowd is absolutely dragging this out and causing measurable harm for the rest of us who want to see the end of this. If you're willfully unvaccinated, society owes you nothing. +: And IC people, which is effectively involuntarily unvaccinated.
  - NoblePublius 5y ago
    The “anti vax crowd” is disproportionately people of color and immigrants who don’t trust the medical industry so your viewpoint here is highly racist and discriminatory. You have been warned.
- chinathrow 5y ago
  I am not from the US and never talked about the US.
  - zeven7 5y ago
    Okay, well what I say refers to the US which has had general availability of the vaccine for a long time now. I would not argue places where people haven't had access to the vaccine should go back to normal yet.
- tzs 5y ago
  > Which hospitals in the US are overwhelmed? A small sample: https://khn.org/news/article/ambulance-resources-911-demand-paramedics-busy-with-patient-transfers-pandemic-fills-hospitals/ https://khn.org/news/article/ambulance-resources-911-demand-... https://www.yorkdispatch.com/story/news/2021/12/16/york-county-logs-one-new-covid-19-death-monday-schools-surpass-2-200-cases/8924154002/ https://www.yorkdispatch.com/story/news/2021/12/16/york-coun... https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/12/16/massachusetts-health-workers-tell-legislators-theyre-exhausted-and-overwhelmed https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/12/16/massachusett... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/health-care-workers-minnesota-are-overwhelmed-heartbroken-executives-s-rcna8649 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/health-care-workers-min... https://www.wmur.com/article/new-hampshire-north-country-hospitals-overwhelmed-covid-19/38518829 https://www.wmur.com/article/new-hampshire-north-country-hos... https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/12/14/covid-surge https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/12/14/covid-sur... https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/12/15/covid-19-overwhelmed-cincinnati-hospitals-may-mean-some-care-gets-delayed/8909240002/ https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/12/15/covid-19-ov... https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/12/15/salem-massachusetts-hospital-staff-shortage/ https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/12/15/salem-massachusetts-h... https://wsbt.com/news/local/memorial-hospital-overwhelmed-at-125-capacity https://wsbt.com/news/local/memorial-hospital-overwhelmed-at...
VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
You seem to have fallen into a weird and frustrating space on this website. I sometimes wonder how the mentality degenerates like this on an ostensibly highly educated platform.
jMyles 5y ago
> during a f*cking, unsolved pandemic What is an "unsolved" pandemic? And what statistical features of endemic equilibrium do you view as sufficiently absent to judge that this pathogen is still pandemic rather than endemic?
- chinathrow 5y ago
  I don't know in what country you reside in but where I live (somewhere in Europe), we have way too many patients on the ICU and way too many other patients in hospital care. And we have way too many operations delayed due shortage of ICU beds. I call this unsolved.
NoblePublius 5y ago
Vaccines are freely available and highly effective against severe disease. The pandemic IS solved. Might also help to remember that NYC built 10,000 ICU beds in five days (that were never used). Our ability to surge hospital capacity is unparalleled. We put men on the moon, FFS.
- Steltek 5y ago
  > Might also help to remember that NYC built 10,000 ICU beds in five days (that were never used). Our ability to surge hospital capacity is unparalleled. This is not what people mean by "beds". It's adequate staffing ratios. In March 2020, there were few hotspots in the country and it's not at all comparable to the situation today. Also, you're being very obtuse and deflective in this thread, bordering on misinformation.
- rrock 5y ago
  Exponential growth easily crushes any attempts to surge capacity.
oxymoran 5y ago
Then why are we forcing nurses that have already had covid to be vaccinated or face termination??? That makes zero sense during a f*cling unsolved pandemic.
carlivar 5y ago
Move on from making children wear masks for 8 hours per day.