4 ms·

You are just a racist and sexist. The problem is you, not other people.

BoorishBears 5y ago
I'm racist and sexist (against myself) for accurately pointing out the trend where a white male dominated industry normalized drinking in the office and how that affected their definition of "culture"? https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 Or are you just insecure about your own biases.
- Zababa 5y ago
  I don't have an opinion on either side of this debate, but your link is based on a "survey with more than 1000 responders" that seems to be about the current state of things. It also doesn't talk about volume, just drinking as if every drinking is the same. I don't think it supports your claims.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    It's not supporting my claims without asking critical thinking of the reader, that's a tough ask I know... There are more studies than you could ask for showing we hire people we'd like to hang out with: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... Alcohol is one thing that caught traction in the "tech bro ecosystem". So put two and two together and what do you get? https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-isnt-party-everybody/ https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-i... https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-industry-has-a-drinking-problem/ https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-in... https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work-office-perk-or-employee-right/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work... https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-kegs https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-keg... https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-policies/companies-rethinking-approach-alcohol-workplace/ https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-... HN is the only place people would actually pretend alcohol is not part of the tech-bro persona lol. Can't admit there's a problem right? At least in the last few years people have realized it's a bad idea. All those pesky HR department and their "inclusion" and "drinking culture shouldn't replace a work culture" noise amiright?
    - Zababa 5y ago
      I've never worked in the US, and don't live there. I don't think asking for more evidence than a comment and a survey of 1000 people in a sector at least a million of people is a display of a lack of critical thinking. In fact I'd say it's quite the opposite. You talked about the last 2 decades, yet nothing in the article talked about that too. The articles you linked there are more substential. I personally live in France. I don't know about the tech industry as a whole, but drinking is the was young adults socialize. I personally don't drink much, so I know how it feels to have people pressuring you to drink more every time you're at a social event. I understand that it's the internet, that you don't know me and that you probably faced plenty of people pretending to be neutral while they were trying to refute what you said, but this wasn't the case here.
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        I stopped reading at the first line. The comment is about the US, the comments I replied to are about the US. I frankly don't care about your perspective as an outsider, these aren't your problems or struggles you don't know them or understand them.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  > Or are you just insecure about your own biases. --- > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    This would be a great copy pasta if you didn't have to purposely ignore the entire rest if the comment to make it work. And it's not an insult, people are clearly insecure about their biases, even you for being unable to address a very clear point and immediately taking solace in playing a wannabe mod to somehow invalidate the actual point. You have biases, I have biases. We all have biases. Some people hear one guy give their career history with one accent, they hear another guy give it to you with a country twang, and they interpret it differently. They see one guy who's real old and one guy who looks 18 say the same thing and they subtly interpret differently. That doesn't make you racist or ageist it makes you human. We're not robots raised in a vacuum and covered in Teflon so we never let biases from a million sources from upbringing to media rub off on us. - This incredible insecurity that white males (amongst others, but most openly expressed due to the fear the tech industry is now oppressing them) have picked up about ever admitting they're not robots is infuriating as a black man. Because the moment you bury your head in the sand like this, you're almost deciding "I will continue to be biased and make no attempt whatsoever to fix it" Like fuck, you're actually going to pretend there are no candidates at all that you maybe get a little excited about because you feel like you connect with them on a personal level in a way that benefits from having a shared culture and is maybe not so helped by being from different cultures??? Because if you are I can tell you it's bullshit:https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... What a person actually interested in dealing with this problem does is accept that, yup I did end up shooting the shit with this candidate, that did improve my image of them a tiny bit, let me look at my feedback again and remove anything that was influenced by that. 9 times out if 10 HR is trying to do this for people and suddenly they act like the tech industry is now built on affirmative action, white men are unable to get ahead (lol) and any non-white-male with a heartbeat is getting hired for walking through the door.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Not my experience and I doubt this is true in any way. Maybe young startups by young founders, but even there I have never seen it. I am not from California and not even the US, but demographics of IT looks pretty similar in many countries. I would expect such behavior in some cases in the established industry branches and large corporations. But that is nepotism and gender or race does not play a role in the slightest.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    I don't even know how this is up for debate! It is universally known people are biased to hire people they'd like to spend time with: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... > > I am not from California and not even the US Oh so you're not from the country in question with these policies? The whole "tech bro" persona did not come into existence for no reason.

I'm racist and sexist (against myself) for accurately pointing out the trend where a white male dominated industry normalized drinking in the office and how that affected their definition of "culture"? https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 Or are you just insecure about your own biases.

Zababa 5y ago
I don't have an opinion on either side of this debate, but your link is based on a "survey with more than 1000 responders" that seems to be about the current state of things. It also doesn't talk about volume, just drinking as if every drinking is the same. I don't think it supports your claims.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  It's not supporting my claims without asking critical thinking of the reader, that's a tough ask I know... There are more studies than you could ask for showing we hire people we'd like to hang out with: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... Alcohol is one thing that caught traction in the "tech bro ecosystem". So put two and two together and what do you get? https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-isnt-party-everybody/ https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-i... https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-industry-has-a-drinking-problem/ https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-in... https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work-office-perk-or-employee-right/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work... https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-kegs https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-keg... https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-policies/companies-rethinking-approach-alcohol-workplace/ https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-... HN is the only place people would actually pretend alcohol is not part of the tech-bro persona lol. Can't admit there's a problem right? At least in the last few years people have realized it's a bad idea. All those pesky HR department and their "inclusion" and "drinking culture shouldn't replace a work culture" noise amiright?
  - Zababa 5y ago
    I've never worked in the US, and don't live there. I don't think asking for more evidence than a comment and a survey of 1000 people in a sector at least a million of people is a display of a lack of critical thinking. In fact I'd say it's quite the opposite. You talked about the last 2 decades, yet nothing in the article talked about that too. The articles you linked there are more substential. I personally live in France. I don't know about the tech industry as a whole, but drinking is the was young adults socialize. I personally don't drink much, so I know how it feels to have people pressuring you to drink more every time you're at a social event. I understand that it's the internet, that you don't know me and that you probably faced plenty of people pretending to be neutral while they were trying to refute what you said, but this wasn't the case here.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      I stopped reading at the first line. The comment is about the US, the comments I replied to are about the US. I frankly don't care about your perspective as an outsider, these aren't your problems or struggles you don't know them or understand them.
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
> Or are you just insecure about your own biases. --- > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  This would be a great copy pasta if you didn't have to purposely ignore the entire rest if the comment to make it work. And it's not an insult, people are clearly insecure about their biases, even you for being unable to address a very clear point and immediately taking solace in playing a wannabe mod to somehow invalidate the actual point. You have biases, I have biases. We all have biases. Some people hear one guy give their career history with one accent, they hear another guy give it to you with a country twang, and they interpret it differently. They see one guy who's real old and one guy who looks 18 say the same thing and they subtly interpret differently. That doesn't make you racist or ageist it makes you human. We're not robots raised in a vacuum and covered in Teflon so we never let biases from a million sources from upbringing to media rub off on us. - This incredible insecurity that white males (amongst others, but most openly expressed due to the fear the tech industry is now oppressing them) have picked up about ever admitting they're not robots is infuriating as a black man. Because the moment you bury your head in the sand like this, you're almost deciding "I will continue to be biased and make no attempt whatsoever to fix it" Like fuck, you're actually going to pretend there are no candidates at all that you maybe get a little excited about because you feel like you connect with them on a personal level in a way that benefits from having a shared culture and is maybe not so helped by being from different cultures??? Because if you are I can tell you it's bullshit:https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... What a person actually interested in dealing with this problem does is accept that, yup I did end up shooting the shit with this candidate, that did improve my image of them a tiny bit, let me look at my feedback again and remove anything that was influenced by that. 9 times out if 10 HR is trying to do this for people and suddenly they act like the tech industry is now built on affirmative action, white men are unable to get ahead (lol) and any non-white-male with a heartbeat is getting hired for walking through the door.
raxxorrax 5y ago
Not my experience and I doubt this is true in any way. Maybe young startups by young founders, but even there I have never seen it. I am not from California and not even the US, but demographics of IT looks pretty similar in many countries. I would expect such behavior in some cases in the established industry branches and large corporations. But that is nepotism and gender or race does not play a role in the slightest.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  I don't even know how this is up for debate! It is universally known people are biased to hire people they'd like to spend time with: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... > > I am not from California and not even the US Oh so you're not from the country in question with these policies? The whole "tech bro" persona did not come into existence for no reason.