4 ms·

This reads to me as it's okay to discriminate as long as it's for the "right group". I honestly feel a bit sick about all this. Maybe it's the only way, but it

This reads to me as it's okay to discriminate as long as it's for the "right group". I honestly feel a bit sick about all this. Maybe it's the only way, but it doesn't feel like it is from my perspective.

najqh 5y ago
It's not the only way. They want you to think it is. Don't let them break you.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  ha that's a hoot. What a horrible injustice for an HR team to try and bring some diversity to a company that mostly hired white males. If white males weren't so busy looking for drinking buddies under the guise of a "culture fit" for the last 2 decades this wouldn't be a thing. Diversity stats for our industry are a boondoggle, most of the diversity is concentrated in a few large companies, and it takes the bare minimum of exposure to tech to realize this.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    You are just a racist and sexist. The problem is you, not other people.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      I'm racist and sexist (against myself) for accurately pointing out the trend where a white male dominated industry normalized drinking in the office and how that affected their definition of "culture"? https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 Or are you just insecure about your own biases.
      - Zababa 5y ago
        I don't have an opinion on either side of this debate, but your link is based on a "survey with more than 1000 responders" that seems to be about the current state of things. It also doesn't talk about volume, just drinking as if every drinking is the same. I don't think it supports your claims.
        BoorishBears 5y ago
        It's not supporting my claims without asking critical thinking of the reader, that's a tough ask I know... There are more studies than you could ask for showing we hire people we'd like to hang out with: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... Alcohol is one thing that caught traction in the "tech bro ecosystem". So put two and two together and what do you get? https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-isnt-party-everybody/ https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-i... https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-industry-has-a-drinking-problem/ https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-in... https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work-office-perk-or-employee-right/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work... https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-kegs https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-keg... https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-policies/companies-rethinking-approach-alcohol-workplace/ https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-... HN is the only place people would actually pretend alcohol is not part of the tech-bro persona lol. Can't admit there's a problem right? At least in the last few years people have realized it's a bad idea. All those pesky HR department and their "inclusion" and "drinking culture shouldn't replace a work culture" noise amiright?
        Zababa 5y ago
        I've never worked in the US, and don't live there. I don't think asking for more evidence than a comment and a survey of 1000 people in a sector at least a million of people is a display of a lack of critical thinking. In fact I'd say it's quite the opposite. You talked about the last 2 decades, yet nothing in the article talked about that too. The articles you linked there are more substential. I personally live in France. I don't know about the tech industry as a whole, but drinking is the was young adults socialize. I personally don't drink much, so I know how it feels to have people pressuring you to drink more every time you're at a social event. I understand that it's the internet, that you don't know me and that you probably faced plenty of people pretending to be neutral while they were trying to refute what you said, but this wasn't the case here.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > What a horrible injustice for an HR team to try and bring some diversity to a company that mostly hired white males. White people are under represented at tech companies in USA. Only Asians are over represented. The only reason to discriminate against white people there is that you hate white people. White people are less under represented than black people, true, but white people are still under represented.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      You started with a lie, wonderful wonderful: https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/diversity-high-tech https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/diversity-high-tech > Compared to overall private industry, the high tech sector employed a larger share of whites (63.5 percent to 68.5 percent), Asian Americans (5.8 percent to 14 percent) and men (52 percent to 64 percent), and a smaller share of African Americans (14.4 percent to 7.4 percent), Hispanics (13.9 percent to 8 percent), and women (48 percent to 36 percent). But I'll play ball, I'm sure you can show me a stat that says white people are underrepresented by a tiny amount by changing the scope, maybe by considering worse paying jobs where white people are definitely underrepresented! That will totally make your point... right? White people are not getting enough of the worst jobs, only the best ones! Kind of why I said industry wide stats are useless though. Of course, also link it so I can show how that same source probably shows blacks and hispanics as being even more underrepresented than mine and I can laugh in your face for acting like white people are "underrepresented" in tech because there's like a 90% correlation to population size instead of 100%. - But actually I mean let's roll with your lie for a second! Do you think, just maybe, white people are less likely to be under represented at the companies that are working hardest to hire non-white-males? Like a company is all-hands-on-deck trying to get some marginalized people working there, that's because...??? Like who... who do you think is currently making up most of the org? - Again... broad industry stats about diversity are utter bullshit. Don't take my word for it, apply some critical thinking. Do you think white males are underrepresented more or less as you climb the ladder? https://www.thisdot.co/blog/diversity-statistics-in-tech-a-deeper-look-and-a-case-study https://www.thisdot.co/blog/diversity-statistics-in-tech-a-d... You can look at that first diagram and you tell me that white males are being discriminated against? Like, how out if touch with reality are you? We're in an industry where the only reason there's any underrepresentation of whites is because companies were stuffing minorities into the worst paying roles and bringing over H1B1s to underpay them whenever they can. The moment HR tries to change the status quo the white males start crying racism. Cry on brother.
raxxorrax 5y ago
It is absolutely just another form of discrimination. In the past people thought they had reason too. If you want compensatory justice and you are male, the only thing you could do is to resign and give your job to a woman. If you demand the same from others you are just as bad as someone that discriminated in the past. There is no higher motivation behind this. HR just follows laws though, so you should boot your legislators for this. Additionally it very much influences work relations for women far more negatively than for men, so they don't even profit from this aside very few selected high earning positions. But those will still have a problem with authority.
gromitss 5y ago
It’s an attempt at leveling the playing field. It’s been so skewed for so long that society is willing to overlook the lack of literal egalitarianism in this situation. It’s a David vs Goliath analogue.

najqh 5y ago

It's not the only way. They want you to think it is. Don't let them break you.

BoorishBears 5y ago
ha that's a hoot. What a horrible injustice for an HR team to try and bring some diversity to a company that mostly hired white males. If white males weren't so busy looking for drinking buddies under the guise of a "culture fit" for the last 2 decades this wouldn't be a thing. Diversity stats for our industry are a boondoggle, most of the diversity is concentrated in a few large companies, and it takes the bare minimum of exposure to tech to realize this.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  You are just a racist and sexist. The problem is you, not other people.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    I'm racist and sexist (against myself) for accurately pointing out the trend where a white male dominated industry normalized drinking in the office and how that affected their definition of "culture"? https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 https://tech.co/news/tech-workplace-drinking-culture-2019-02 Or are you just insecure about your own biases.
    - Zababa 5y ago
      I don't have an opinion on either side of this debate, but your link is based on a "survey with more than 1000 responders" that seems to be about the current state of things. It also doesn't talk about volume, just drinking as if every drinking is the same. I don't think it supports your claims.
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        It's not supporting my claims without asking critical thinking of the reader, that's a tough ask I know... There are more studies than you could ask for showing we hire people we'd like to hang out with: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121129093008.h... Alcohol is one thing that caught traction in the "tech bro ecosystem". So put two and two together and what do you get? https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-isnt-party-everybody/ https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-i... https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-industry-has-a-drinking-problem/ https://www.softwareiseasypeoplearehard.com/does-the-tech-in... https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work-office-perk-or-employee-right/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/csr/2011/03/18/drinking-at-work... https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://technical.ly/philly/2016/05/02/alcohol-tech-events/ https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-kegs https://www.teamgather.co/blog/ping-pong-tables-and-beer-keg... https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-policies/companies-rethinking-approach-alcohol-workplace/ https://www.huntonlaborblog.com/2019/01/articles/employment-... HN is the only place people would actually pretend alcohol is not part of the tech-bro persona lol. Can't admit there's a problem right? At least in the last few years people have realized it's a bad idea. All those pesky HR department and their "inclusion" and "drinking culture shouldn't replace a work culture" noise amiright?
        Zababa 5y ago
        I've never worked in the US, and don't live there. I don't think asking for more evidence than a comment and a survey of 1000 people in a sector at least a million of people is a display of a lack of critical thinking. In fact I'd say it's quite the opposite. You talked about the last 2 decades, yet nothing in the article talked about that too. The articles you linked there are more substential. I personally live in France. I don't know about the tech industry as a whole, but drinking is the was young adults socialize. I personally don't drink much, so I know how it feels to have people pressuring you to drink more every time you're at a social event. I understand that it's the internet, that you don't know me and that you probably faced plenty of people pretending to be neutral while they were trying to refute what you said, but this wasn't the case here.
- Jensson 5y ago
  > What a horrible injustice for an HR team to try and bring some diversity to a company that mostly hired white males. White people are under represented at tech companies in USA. Only Asians are over represented. The only reason to discriminate against white people there is that you hate white people. White people are less under represented than black people, true, but white people are still under represented.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    You started with a lie, wonderful wonderful: https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/diversity-high-tech https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/diversity-high-tech > Compared to overall private industry, the high tech sector employed a larger share of whites (63.5 percent to 68.5 percent), Asian Americans (5.8 percent to 14 percent) and men (52 percent to 64 percent), and a smaller share of African Americans (14.4 percent to 7.4 percent), Hispanics (13.9 percent to 8 percent), and women (48 percent to 36 percent). But I'll play ball, I'm sure you can show me a stat that says white people are underrepresented by a tiny amount by changing the scope, maybe by considering worse paying jobs where white people are definitely underrepresented! That will totally make your point... right? White people are not getting enough of the worst jobs, only the best ones! Kind of why I said industry wide stats are useless though. Of course, also link it so I can show how that same source probably shows blacks and hispanics as being even more underrepresented than mine and I can laugh in your face for acting like white people are "underrepresented" in tech because there's like a 90% correlation to population size instead of 100%. - But actually I mean let's roll with your lie for a second! Do you think, just maybe, white people are less likely to be under represented at the companies that are working hardest to hire non-white-males? Like a company is all-hands-on-deck trying to get some marginalized people working there, that's because...??? Like who... who do you think is currently making up most of the org? - Again... broad industry stats about diversity are utter bullshit. Don't take my word for it, apply some critical thinking. Do you think white males are underrepresented more or less as you climb the ladder? https://www.thisdot.co/blog/diversity-statistics-in-tech-a-deeper-look-and-a-case-study https://www.thisdot.co/blog/diversity-statistics-in-tech-a-d... You can look at that first diagram and you tell me that white males are being discriminated against? Like, how out if touch with reality are you? We're in an industry where the only reason there's any underrepresentation of whites is because companies were stuffing minorities into the worst paying roles and bringing over H1B1s to underpay them whenever they can. The moment HR tries to change the status quo the white males start crying racism. Cry on brother.

raxxorrax 5y ago

It is absolutely just another form of discrimination. In the past people thought they had reason too. If you want compensatory justice and you are male, the only thing you could do is to resign and give your job to a woman. If you demand the same from others you are just as bad as someone that discriminated in the past. There is no higher motivation behind this. HR just follows laws though, so you should boot your legislators for this. Additionally it very much influences work relations for women far more negatively than for men, so they don't even profit from this aside very few selected high earning positions. But those will still have a problem with authority.

gromitss 5y ago

It’s an attempt at leveling the playing field. It’s been so skewed for so long that society is willing to overlook the lack of literal egalitarianism in this situation. It’s a David vs Goliath analogue.