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The revolution will not come from the left. The "left" elites have forgotten the people, and the left in general is talking more about identity issues than clas

The revolution will not come from the left. The "left" elites have forgotten the people, and the left in general is talking more about identity issues than class issues. The revolution will be more Trump than Bernie. Like in the early 1900, where more revolutions where fascist than communist.

door103 5y ago
> The "left" elites have forgotten the people, and the left in general is talking more about identity issues than class issues. You mention this in a discussion about Bernie Sanders? Probably the politician with the most single-minded focus on class politics in the country
- tobltobs 5y ago
  > The "left" elites Bernie isn't elite and not close to any power circle.
  - jordan_curve 5y ago
    What do you mean? He is currently a U.S. Senator. There aren’t many circles more elite or powerful than that.
    - anshumankmr 5y ago
      Plus he is a multi-millionaire.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        What does being a multi millionaire allow one to do? An old couple with a few million saved up for the rest of their life is protected against health risks and some inflation, but they are not likely going to be able to spend sufficiently to influence others.
        anshumankmr 5y ago
        Using this information here [1](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/where-bernie-sanders-money-comes-from.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/where-bernie-sanders-money-c...) and this calculator here [2](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/21/are-you-in-the-global-middle-class-find-out-with-our-income-calculator/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/21/are-you-in-...), >annual income of 1,100,000 U.S. dollars for a household of 2 is equivalent to $1,309/day per person in 2011 in purchasing power parity dollars, putting you in the high income group worldwide, along with 39.8% of people in advanced economies. *2 since he has a wife. And he doesn't have to pay much for insurance as per this [3](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/25/heres-how-much-members-of-congress-pay-for-their-health-insurance.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/25/heres-how-much-members-of-co...) He is a part of the "elite" class as per his income. And being a senator he does have a lot of influence over policy. I don't hate Bernie but seeing the discourse regarding him, that often deifies him feels disingenuous to me.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Sanders does not have recurring annual income of $1M+. It was for a couple years due to selling a book at the height of his popularity. Having $1M+ in reliable, recurring income would allow a “multi millionaire” to have influence. Certainly his position as US Senator and accompanying benefits is significant, but I was just commenting that being a “multi millionaire” is not indicative of much sway assuming multi millionaire also means having a few million in total net worth at retirement age. Anyway, my point is, I would not qualify him as “elite” in the sense of being able to affect federal policy just by his regular income / net worth if he was not already a US senator. He would get outbid by many others with deeper pockets vying for political influence.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        He doesn't quite have a million dollar income. He made a million dollars from selling a book, which is a one-off. His normal annual income is more like 250 000$, which is still a lot.
unionpivo 5y ago
Sure, but the rise of communism also came around that time. And to be perfectly honest, the fall of communism, kind of coincides with when the balance of rich vs the rest started to go off rails. Communism is dead, but that doesn't mean something else cant come and replace it (and probably be just as bad)
vlunkr 5y ago
Considering the capitol riots in January, yeah you might be right.
malwarebytess 5y ago
I came to the same conclusion. However my thinking was more along the lines of examining where the most evocative, incisive, accurate, renderings of culture & critique were being created. I'll tell you, the revolution will not be televised. And it's not coming from America's liberals (and of course not from the Silent gen. type conservatives either.) but it is more often than not coming from the right. Thought not the right that is in power now...
manmal 5y ago
What people in the US call left elites, is being called slightly rightwing in the EU. When I hear comments like „state-funded housing is socialism“ I have to chuckle. That’s just how you make sure people won’t starve if they don’t resort to shady business. Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here, but not extremely so.
- virgilp 5y ago
  It's hard to debunk this since if we declare all democrat party to be "left", then yes, some democrats will be slightly rightwing. But there are definitely some "left" currents that started in US universities and are spreading to the rest of the world. The kind of stuff that Jordan Peterson is preaching against is definitely not considered "slightly rightwing" in the EU.
  - detaro 5y ago
    That stuff also has nothing to do with how "left-right" is classified in Europe.
- ernst_klim 5y ago
  > is being called slightly rightwing in the EU That's simply not true. > Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here Where is "here"? How is "financial transaction tax" a mainstream idea in europe?
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    The EU have tried to introduce it a bunch of times. Normally it got fought back by the UK, who are no longer in the EU. I could definitely see this happening in the next five to ten years.
    - ernst_klim 5y ago
      Wow, you are right, that's terrible.
  - 5y ago
dukeofdoom 5y ago
Antisemitism is on the rise to. Before comments were removed, the recent movie Santa Inc had tens of thousands of comments abut elves. It's full on Gab, and even on Twitter from the left.
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  I haven't seen much or any antisemitism from the left, unless you are referring to criticism of Israel's state policies.
  - dukeofdoom 5y ago
    The BDS movement, and the left just uses different code words, like 'Elites'
- vlunkr 5y ago
  I'm sure there were some bad comments, but IMO this is a marketing ploy. Remember Ghostbusters 2016? The film-makers made a huge deal about the trailer being downvoted heavily, claiming it was all about sexism. When in reality the trailer and the movie were pretty mediocre. Seems like the same thing with Santa Inc. Have you watched the trailer? It looks terrible.

door103 5y ago

> The "left" elites have forgotten the people, and the left in general is talking more about identity issues than class issues. You mention this in a discussion about Bernie Sanders? Probably the politician with the most single-minded focus on class politics in the country

tobltobs 5y ago
> The "left" elites Bernie isn't elite and not close to any power circle.
- jordan_curve 5y ago
  What do you mean? He is currently a U.S. Senator. There aren’t many circles more elite or powerful than that.
  - anshumankmr 5y ago
    Plus he is a multi-millionaire.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      What does being a multi millionaire allow one to do? An old couple with a few million saved up for the rest of their life is protected against health risks and some inflation, but they are not likely going to be able to spend sufficiently to influence others.
      - anshumankmr 5y ago
        Using this information here [1](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/where-bernie-sanders-money-comes-from.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/where-bernie-sanders-money-c...) and this calculator here [2](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/21/are-you-in-the-global-middle-class-find-out-with-our-income-calculator/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/21/are-you-in-...), >annual income of 1,100,000 U.S. dollars for a household of 2 is equivalent to $1,309/day per person in 2011 in purchasing power parity dollars, putting you in the high income group worldwide, along with 39.8% of people in advanced economies. *2 since he has a wife. And he doesn't have to pay much for insurance as per this [3](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/25/heres-how-much-members-of-congress-pay-for-their-health-insurance.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/25/heres-how-much-members-of-co...) He is a part of the "elite" class as per his income. And being a senator he does have a lot of influence over policy. I don't hate Bernie but seeing the discourse regarding him, that often deifies him feels disingenuous to me.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Sanders does not have recurring annual income of $1M+. It was for a couple years due to selling a book at the height of his popularity. Having $1M+ in reliable, recurring income would allow a “multi millionaire” to have influence. Certainly his position as US Senator and accompanying benefits is significant, but I was just commenting that being a “multi millionaire” is not indicative of much sway assuming multi millionaire also means having a few million in total net worth at retirement age. Anyway, my point is, I would not qualify him as “elite” in the sense of being able to affect federal policy just by his regular income / net worth if he was not already a US senator. He would get outbid by many others with deeper pockets vying for political influence.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        He doesn't quite have a million dollar income. He made a million dollars from selling a book, which is a one-off. His normal annual income is more like 250 000$, which is still a lot.

unionpivo 5y ago

Sure, but the rise of communism also came around that time. And to be perfectly honest, the fall of communism, kind of coincides with when the balance of rich vs the rest started to go off rails. Communism is dead, but that doesn't mean something else cant come and replace it (and probably be just as bad)

vlunkr 5y ago

Considering the capitol riots in January, yeah you might be right.

malwarebytess 5y ago

I came to the same conclusion. However my thinking was more along the lines of examining where the most evocative, incisive, accurate, renderings of culture & critique were being created. I'll tell you, the revolution will not be televised. And it's not coming from America's liberals (and of course not from the Silent gen. type conservatives either.) but it is more often than not coming from the right. Thought not the right that is in power now...

manmal 5y ago

What people in the US call left elites, is being called slightly rightwing in the EU. When I hear comments like „state-funded housing is socialism“ I have to chuckle. That’s just how you make sure people won’t starve if they don’t resort to shady business. Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here, but not extremely so.

virgilp 5y ago
It's hard to debunk this since if we declare all democrat party to be "left", then yes, some democrats will be slightly rightwing. But there are definitely some "left" currents that started in US universities and are spreading to the rest of the world. The kind of stuff that Jordan Peterson is preaching against is definitely not considered "slightly rightwing" in the EU.
- detaro 5y ago
  That stuff also has nothing to do with how "left-right" is classified in Europe.
ernst_klim 5y ago
> is being called slightly rightwing in the EU That's simply not true. > Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here Where is "here"? How is "financial transaction tax" a mainstream idea in europe?
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  The EU have tried to introduce it a bunch of times. Normally it got fought back by the UK, who are no longer in the EU. I could definitely see this happening in the next five to ten years.
  - ernst_klim 5y ago
    Wow, you are right, that's terrible.
- 5y ago

dukeofdoom 5y ago

Antisemitism is on the rise to. Before comments were removed, the recent movie Santa Inc had tens of thousands of comments abut elves. It's full on Gab, and even on Twitter from the left.

WaxProlix 5y ago
I haven't seen much or any antisemitism from the left, unless you are referring to criticism of Israel's state policies.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  The BDS movement, and the left just uses different code words, like 'Elites'
vlunkr 5y ago
I'm sure there were some bad comments, but IMO this is a marketing ploy. Remember Ghostbusters 2016? The film-makers made a huge deal about the trailer being downvoted heavily, claiming it was all about sexism. When in reality the trailer and the movie were pretty mediocre. Seems like the same thing with Santa Inc. Have you watched the trailer? It looks terrible.