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What if you just dropped all the ideology speak and just called them platforms? Theyre open finance platforms. Everyone building bullshit on Shopify’s platform

What if you just dropped all the ideology speak and just called them platforms? Theyre open finance platforms. Everyone building bullshit on Shopify’s platform is the exact audience that would be better off building on an open finance platform (the shopify apps that are sold to merchants). That crowd just wants to launch a product, have users, and make money passively. Thats what defi builders are doing on web3 platforms waaaaay more effectively. If you actually thought anybody cared about the consensus then haha yeah you’re the one that fell for it, not them.

throwaway2048 5y ago
Better in what sense? Its extremely difficult to actually use cryptocurrency for selling things beyond cryptocurrency related instruments. You need both your vendors and your customers to be able to easily transfer money in and out, and as things stand, that's an absolutely massive pain in the ass compared to using USD, and approximately nobody does it. But that is only the start of the problems, not factoring in things like wild exchange value swings, and huge gas/processing fees.
- amluto 5y ago
  But it’s fairly easy to use “cryptocurrency” to pay for things, e.g. if you have a cryptocurrency-denominated account at the same provider as your vendor. This is, of course, not open finance in any meaningful respect.
  - smt88 5y ago
    It's easy-ish (far harder than using a credit card), but it's also: - possible the transaction won't happen immediately or happen at all - extremely expensive - stupid (if you expect your particular cryptocurrency to increase in value over time) - missing all the protections and benefits of a credit card
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      - Introduces exchange risk and tax complexities for most merchants.
    - amluto 5y ago
      If I transfer from my Coinbase account to yours, the transaction is not subject to the vagaries of the blockchain. It’s more or less like transferring from my PayPal account to yours.
      - smt88 5y ago
        Are you suggesting it's sidechain? Or that our funds in Coinbase are pooled? Either way, it completely defeats the purpose of decentralization, consensus, etc. Coinbase, in that case, is exactly like a traditional bank except that you're trading non-money instead of money.
        amluto 5y ago
        If you are depositing anything in an online Bitcoin account and you’re making transactions that aren’t insanely expensive, they’re either side chain or pooled.
  - MBCook 5y ago
    Ah yes. The solution to “normal people can’t easily get cryptocurrency to pay with” is “well if they already had cryptocurrency…”. I just noticed I read that wrong. I missed the same provider as your vendor part. So I guess the solution for using cryptocurrency to buy things at Amazon is “if you already bought cryptocurrency at Amazon…”. But I’m trying to buy something. So how does the intermediatory step help at all? This post may sound somewhat hostile. I TRUELY don’t understand how cryptocurrency helps any of this. It only seems to help cryptocurrency people. The author nailed my feelings 100%.
- post_from_work 5y ago
  >>>Better in what sense? Its extremely difficult to actually use cryptocurrency for selling things beyond cryptocurrency related instruments. https://cryptoemporium.eu/ https://cryptoemporium.eu/ https://www.chainbytes.com/ https://www.chainbytes.com/ Sell physical assets for crypto, then cash out at a Crypto ATM in your currency of choice, if you absolutely need to. A big part of the problem is Crypto ATMs aren't prolific enough. Restrictions on money-handling businesses come into play there, which is argued as anti-terrorism/organized crime measures but is really just gatekeeping/rent-seeking by the established players.
- vmception 5y ago
  I’m referring to shopify apps that merchants try to integrate.
simonw 5y ago
How is building against defi better than building on Shopify if you want to sell things to regular people who just want to exchange their money for things that they want?
- vmception 5y ago
  The shopify apps on their app marketplace is what I’m referring to. These are sold to merchants hoping to do something easier. All defi products help people already in the defi ecosystem do something easier.
smt88 5y ago
None of your post makes sense to me. Why are you comparing DeFi platforms to Shopify? Who are the developers choosing between these options, and what are they trying to sell? How does a DeFi platform (or any blockchain) help me to sell physical products? Also, it seems like you're arguing that blockchain platforms are better developer experiences, which seems untrue. There are a lot of extra hurdles, costs, and scaling issues on blockchains, but enthusiasts say it's worth it for the consensus. Now you're saying the consensus is unimportant. So what is the benefit of building on a platform (please let me know a specific one you've used and liked) and why it can't be done elsewhere? I have seen so many HN posts like yours, but no one will give me specifics. Who are all these builders launching apps that aren't just speculation frenzies (e.g. Axie Infinity)?
- smt88 5y ago
  Not surprised that, when asked for specifics, there is no response. This is how every crypto thread goes. "Crypto is going to revolutionize ____." "OK, what is a use case where it provides some value that wasn't possible without it?" ...
acdha 5y ago
Okay, so how does it compare to Shopify? If I sell coffee beans, what’s my situation for cost of transaction (including conversion into the currency I need to pay my bills), ease of use for customers, transaction speed, difficulty of doing my taxes, etc.? If this is better, that should be easy to quantify.

throwaway2048 5y ago

Better in what sense? Its extremely difficult to actually use cryptocurrency for selling things beyond cryptocurrency related instruments. You need both your vendors and your customers to be able to easily transfer money in and out, and as things stand, that's an absolutely massive pain in the ass compared to using USD, and approximately nobody does it. But that is only the start of the problems, not factoring in things like wild exchange value swings, and huge gas/processing fees.

amluto 5y ago
But it’s fairly easy to use “cryptocurrency” to pay for things, e.g. if you have a cryptocurrency-denominated account at the same provider as your vendor. This is, of course, not open finance in any meaningful respect.
- smt88 5y ago
  It's easy-ish (far harder than using a credit card), but it's also: - possible the transaction won't happen immediately or happen at all - extremely expensive - stupid (if you expect your particular cryptocurrency to increase in value over time) - missing all the protections and benefits of a credit card
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    - Introduces exchange risk and tax complexities for most merchants.
  - amluto 5y ago
    If I transfer from my Coinbase account to yours, the transaction is not subject to the vagaries of the blockchain. It’s more or less like transferring from my PayPal account to yours.
    - smt88 5y ago
      Are you suggesting it's sidechain? Or that our funds in Coinbase are pooled? Either way, it completely defeats the purpose of decentralization, consensus, etc. Coinbase, in that case, is exactly like a traditional bank except that you're trading non-money instead of money.
      - amluto 5y ago
        If you are depositing anything in an online Bitcoin account and you’re making transactions that aren’t insanely expensive, they’re either side chain or pooled.
- MBCook 5y ago
  Ah yes. The solution to “normal people can’t easily get cryptocurrency to pay with” is “well if they already had cryptocurrency…”. I just noticed I read that wrong. I missed the same provider as your vendor part. So I guess the solution for using cryptocurrency to buy things at Amazon is “if you already bought cryptocurrency at Amazon…”. But I’m trying to buy something. So how does the intermediatory step help at all? This post may sound somewhat hostile. I TRUELY don’t understand how cryptocurrency helps any of this. It only seems to help cryptocurrency people. The author nailed my feelings 100%.
post_from_work 5y ago
>>>Better in what sense? Its extremely difficult to actually use cryptocurrency for selling things beyond cryptocurrency related instruments. https://cryptoemporium.eu/ https://cryptoemporium.eu/ https://www.chainbytes.com/ https://www.chainbytes.com/ Sell physical assets for crypto, then cash out at a Crypto ATM in your currency of choice, if you absolutely need to. A big part of the problem is Crypto ATMs aren't prolific enough. Restrictions on money-handling businesses come into play there, which is argued as anti-terrorism/organized crime measures but is really just gatekeeping/rent-seeking by the established players.
vmception 5y ago
I’m referring to shopify apps that merchants try to integrate.

simonw 5y ago

How is building against defi better than building on Shopify if you want to sell things to regular people who just want to exchange their money for things that they want?

vmception 5y ago
The shopify apps on their app marketplace is what I’m referring to. These are sold to merchants hoping to do something easier. All defi products help people already in the defi ecosystem do something easier.

smt88 5y ago

None of your post makes sense to me. Why are you comparing DeFi platforms to Shopify? Who are the developers choosing between these options, and what are they trying to sell? How does a DeFi platform (or any blockchain) help me to sell physical products? Also, it seems like you're arguing that blockchain platforms are better developer experiences, which seems untrue. There are a lot of extra hurdles, costs, and scaling issues on blockchains, but enthusiasts say it's worth it for the consensus. Now you're saying the consensus is unimportant. So what is the benefit of building on a platform (please let me know a specific one you've used and liked) and why it can't be done elsewhere? I have seen so many HN posts like yours, but no one will give me specifics. Who are all these builders launching apps that aren't just speculation frenzies (e.g. Axie Infinity)?

smt88 5y ago
Not surprised that, when asked for specifics, there is no response. This is how every crypto thread goes. "Crypto is going to revolutionize ____." "OK, what is a use case where it provides some value that wasn't possible without it?" ...

acdha 5y ago

Okay, so how does it compare to Shopify? If I sell coffee beans, what’s my situation for cost of transaction (including conversion into the currency I need to pay my bills), ease of use for customers, transaction speed, difficulty of doing my taxes, etc.? If this is better, that should be easy to quantify.