7 ms·

Valve actively supporting Godot to make the engine work well on the Steam Deck

237 points by MarcellusDrum 5y ago

stavros 5y ago
Ahh yes, "commoditize your complements".
- echelon 5y ago
  A direct shot across the bow of Microsoft. Also against Epic Games and Unity if Valve wants to prevent them from growing into distribution platforms of their own. This won't deter Amazon, Google, and Nvidia, who are all attempting to run game engines in the cloud. Their strategy is to remove consoles and PCs entirely and have you subscribe to streamed content forever. Latency and partnerships are still the biggest issues for them. This is shaping up to be the next major battle of the tech wars.
  - jcelerier 5y ago
    Epic don't really see Godot as competitor, afaik they've donated a fair amount of money to the dev. funds
    - chii 5y ago
      it's likely that godot steals more customers from unity than UE, and it makes strategic sense to fund a competitor to unity, even if it hurts your own EU a tiny bit (if any realistically, since UE targets a different customer base).
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    let them run their game engines in the cloud but they wont be paying through their nose to microsoft if they use proton/wine. the cost savings might justify their fixing bugs in wine/proton which is good for everyone
- ThatPlayer 5y ago
  For anyone who hasn't read it, Gwern's essay on this is great https://www.gwern.net/Complement https://www.gwern.net/Complement
hn8788 5y ago
Steam Deck is just a handheld PC, I'm not sure what support the engine developers would need besides being able to understand the built-in controls.
- rektide 5y ago
  general optimizatiin & tuning & profiling on an open source scarcely funded engine, is my first second third & fourth guesses. just a little bit of technical assists can often do wonders in open source. that expert look, is, alas, uncommon. would be freaking sweet if they'd buy the team some pizza, beer, & coffe but hey we cant expect the world. that'd be basically unprecedentedly nice to open source.
  - erikbye 5y ago
    Beer and pizza? Godot devs are not homeless nor live in a frat house. They have the means to buy food.
    - TulliusCicero 5y ago
      True, they have a patreon (and corporate sponsors).
- darknavi 5y ago
  In the console space it is really common to have the platform loan out devs for onboarding to their platform. Maybe they are just providing consultation on common pitfalls when it comes to their architecture.
- deadbunny 5y ago
  Consoles are just PCs, they have a lot of specific optimizations.
  - needle0 5y ago
    When the description "just a PC" is applied to Steam Deck, it usually implies not just the x86/IBM-PC-descendant hardware configurations, but also the lack of strict software/hardware lockdown measures to prevent the use and execution of unapproved sw/hw. PS4/PS5/XB1/XSX are indeed similar to PCs hardware wise, but from this definition of "just a PC," they really aren't.
shmerl 5y ago
Nice. More native Linux games are always welcome!
- needle0 5y ago
  Well, they could be just talking about ensuring Godot-based Windows games running on Proton without any Linux-specific compatibility issues, of course...
  - shmerl 5y ago
    Godot already has good native Linux support, so I'm sure whatever they contribute would help that as well.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Lots of them available for Android/Linux and ChromeOS/Linux.
  - shmerl 5y ago
    Not sure about lots. I got the impression that intersection between PC and mobile games is not that big. And Valve are focused and PC games proper (in this case running on Linux obviously). If anything, lately less games come out for Linux natively on Steam or GOG may be due to relative decline of marketing push until recently. But now with Steam Deck Valve are a least putting more weight behind marketing again, which is good.
Shadonototra 5y ago
native game is the way to drive adoption up i applaud this move! more effort should be put into cross compilation toolchains, including abstracted graphics API more widely accessible, crossplatform libraries and APIs is the way to go! targeting linux with godot/unity is a matter of a click it should be way more encouraged! valve, next step is a xplatform, ondemand build farm! with a lot of different GPUs and OS, so people can submit and test their game with ease! if want to keep 30% then invest!
- charcircuit 5y ago
  >native game is the way to drive adoption up No, the way to drive adoption is to improve wine / dxvk. Allowing developers to target a single set of APIs is key to making it easy for games to work and not rot from developers not testing on Linux.
  - Shadonototra 5y ago
    you can't depend on emulating proprietary tech that makes you non-future proof, and non resilient to failures or niche cases wine/dxvk is a transition path, a way to supplement your library look at history, apple did it very well with Rosetta, aid people to transition to the new platform nothing can beat the ease of use of native product, built for the platform 30 GB SteamOS, something that could have just been few MBs if native linux target was promoted MORE by valve, just think about that ;)
    - charcircuit 5y ago
      >nothing can beat the ease of use of native product, built for the platform Yes, you can. A "native" port of Among Us would literally not be better than using proton to run it.
      - Shadonototra 5y ago
        it literally is with proton you need: proton, wine, dxvk, and bunch of libraries that already is 10x the size of the game itself there is also a setup time cost, it's not good for the user having to wait ;)
andrewclunn 5y ago
In a world where tech companies keep disappointing me, Valve continues to be a force for good. Probably because it's still a private company. Publicly traded companies can't see anything further than balance sheets.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
this is nice. now amazon is looking at luna for linux. the idea is, people can build games, buy games and microsoft should not be in the loop. they have no justification for forcing people to lock in their customers and the endless loop. i have been a fan of the whole FOSS movement and never played any games because i don't have a GPU to game on. lol. anyways, this is good for people too, when more people start to not need windows, software developers who have traditionally always relied on microsoft tech stack will have to look around at alternatives. all in all, this looks promising
- pjmlp 5y ago
  People can build games, buy games for Android and ChromeOS, both Linux based, without Microsoft on the loop, and it hasn't made GNU/Linux magically get those games. The problem that GNU/Linux doesn't get games isn't Microsoft.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    you know there is a good project called waydroid? anyways, what i mean is when you are talking about amazon level gaming streaming service or steam os, earlier they were forced to keep microsoft in the loop, both in development as well as in end users. now if that monopoly is removed, a game developed for windows works on linux, there is no forcing of the end users to use windows. like in software. suppose tomorrow adobe releases all its software on linux. a lot of people who were forced to stay on windows BECAUSE of adobe would be free to switch, giving them more choice. right now, there is none.
- chrisux 5y ago
  > software developers who have traditionally always relied on microsoft tech stack will have to look around at alternatives. Not necessarily. There will be Windows Subsystem for Linux, and Xamarin/MAUI proves that multiple targets with a .net codebase are very possible (desktop win/mac, ios, android). Xamarin/Maui and .net are all OSS. A MS supported target for linux via Maui is being discussed; and one of the MAUI developers already has a repo to support linux as a target that may possibly become an official branch. https://github.com/jsuarezruiz/maui-linux https://github.com/jsuarezruiz/maui-linux There is also the .net Community. Uno Platform (FOSS) & Avalonia (FOSS) are both .net based and target Linux and much more. The code is similar to programming for Xamarin/Maui, you can share most of the core code of your app between these targets. For Gaming: Unity and Monogame are OSS, Unity and Unity's editor is on Linux. MonoGame (OSS) (stardew valley) targets linux. Stride (3rd party engine) is also .net and targets Linux. Cryengine is also usable from .net. And last but not least: Godot can officially be programmed using .net. I am not worried as a "windows software developer" that I would be needing to switch stacks to target Linux. I can already make games or software target Linux from .net. - edited, clarity
beebeepka 5y ago
Good. One of those times when self serving is good for everyone. Ensuring we don't need MS is always a good thing
cheeseomlit 5y ago
Awesome, now I can finally play Cruelty Squad on the toilet. Time is money, CEO mindset

237 points by MarcellusDrum 5y ago

stavros 5y ago

Ahh yes, "commoditize your complements".

echelon 5y ago
A direct shot across the bow of Microsoft. Also against Epic Games and Unity if Valve wants to prevent them from growing into distribution platforms of their own. This won't deter Amazon, Google, and Nvidia, who are all attempting to run game engines in the cloud. Their strategy is to remove consoles and PCs entirely and have you subscribe to streamed content forever. Latency and partnerships are still the biggest issues for them. This is shaping up to be the next major battle of the tech wars.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  Epic don't really see Godot as competitor, afaik they've donated a fair amount of money to the dev. funds
  - chii 5y ago
    it's likely that godot steals more customers from unity than UE, and it makes strategic sense to fund a competitor to unity, even if it hurts your own EU a tiny bit (if any realistically, since UE targets a different customer base).
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  let them run their game engines in the cloud but they wont be paying through their nose to microsoft if they use proton/wine. the cost savings might justify their fixing bugs in wine/proton which is good for everyone
ThatPlayer 5y ago
For anyone who hasn't read it, Gwern's essay on this is great https://www.gwern.net/Complement https://www.gwern.net/Complement

hn8788 5y ago

Steam Deck is just a handheld PC, I'm not sure what support the engine developers would need besides being able to understand the built-in controls.

rektide 5y ago
general optimizatiin & tuning & profiling on an open source scarcely funded engine, is my first second third & fourth guesses. just a little bit of technical assists can often do wonders in open source. that expert look, is, alas, uncommon. would be freaking sweet if they'd buy the team some pizza, beer, & coffe but hey we cant expect the world. that'd be basically unprecedentedly nice to open source.
- erikbye 5y ago
  Beer and pizza? Godot devs are not homeless nor live in a frat house. They have the means to buy food.
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    True, they have a patreon (and corporate sponsors).
darknavi 5y ago
In the console space it is really common to have the platform loan out devs for onboarding to their platform. Maybe they are just providing consultation on common pitfalls when it comes to their architecture.
deadbunny 5y ago
Consoles are just PCs, they have a lot of specific optimizations.
- needle0 5y ago
  When the description "just a PC" is applied to Steam Deck, it usually implies not just the x86/IBM-PC-descendant hardware configurations, but also the lack of strict software/hardware lockdown measures to prevent the use and execution of unapproved sw/hw. PS4/PS5/XB1/XSX are indeed similar to PCs hardware wise, but from this definition of "just a PC," they really aren't.

shmerl 5y ago

Nice. More native Linux games are always welcome!

needle0 5y ago
Well, they could be just talking about ensuring Godot-based Windows games running on Proton without any Linux-specific compatibility issues, of course...
- shmerl 5y ago
  Godot already has good native Linux support, so I'm sure whatever they contribute would help that as well.
pjmlp 5y ago
Lots of them available for Android/Linux and ChromeOS/Linux.
- shmerl 5y ago
  Not sure about lots. I got the impression that intersection between PC and mobile games is not that big. And Valve are focused and PC games proper (in this case running on Linux obviously). If anything, lately less games come out for Linux natively on Steam or GOG may be due to relative decline of marketing push until recently. But now with Steam Deck Valve are a least putting more weight behind marketing again, which is good.

Shadonototra 5y ago

native game is the way to drive adoption up i applaud this move! more effort should be put into cross compilation toolchains, including abstracted graphics API more widely accessible, crossplatform libraries and APIs is the way to go! targeting linux with godot/unity is a matter of a click it should be way more encouraged! valve, next step is a xplatform, ondemand build farm! with a lot of different GPUs and OS, so people can submit and test their game with ease! if want to keep 30% then invest!

charcircuit 5y ago
>native game is the way to drive adoption up No, the way to drive adoption is to improve wine / dxvk. Allowing developers to target a single set of APIs is key to making it easy for games to work and not rot from developers not testing on Linux.
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  you can't depend on emulating proprietary tech that makes you non-future proof, and non resilient to failures or niche cases wine/dxvk is a transition path, a way to supplement your library look at history, apple did it very well with Rosetta, aid people to transition to the new platform nothing can beat the ease of use of native product, built for the platform 30 GB SteamOS, something that could have just been few MBs if native linux target was promoted MORE by valve, just think about that ;)
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    >nothing can beat the ease of use of native product, built for the platform Yes, you can. A "native" port of Among Us would literally not be better than using proton to run it.
    - Shadonototra 5y ago
      it literally is with proton you need: proton, wine, dxvk, and bunch of libraries that already is 10x the size of the game itself there is also a setup time cost, it's not good for the user having to wait ;)

andrewclunn 5y ago

In a world where tech companies keep disappointing me, Valve continues to be a force for good. Probably because it's still a private company. Publicly traded companies can't see anything further than balance sheets.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

this is nice. now amazon is looking at luna for linux. the idea is, people can build games, buy games and microsoft should not be in the loop. they have no justification for forcing people to lock in their customers and the endless loop. i have been a fan of the whole FOSS movement and never played any games because i don't have a GPU to game on. lol. anyways, this is good for people too, when more people start to not need windows, software developers who have traditionally always relied on microsoft tech stack will have to look around at alternatives. all in all, this looks promising

pjmlp 5y ago
People can build games, buy games for Android and ChromeOS, both Linux based, without Microsoft on the loop, and it hasn't made GNU/Linux magically get those games. The problem that GNU/Linux doesn't get games isn't Microsoft.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  you know there is a good project called waydroid? anyways, what i mean is when you are talking about amazon level gaming streaming service or steam os, earlier they were forced to keep microsoft in the loop, both in development as well as in end users. now if that monopoly is removed, a game developed for windows works on linux, there is no forcing of the end users to use windows. like in software. suppose tomorrow adobe releases all its software on linux. a lot of people who were forced to stay on windows BECAUSE of adobe would be free to switch, giving them more choice. right now, there is none.
chrisux 5y ago
> software developers who have traditionally always relied on microsoft tech stack will have to look around at alternatives. Not necessarily. There will be Windows Subsystem for Linux, and Xamarin/MAUI proves that multiple targets with a .net codebase are very possible (desktop win/mac, ios, android). Xamarin/Maui and .net are all OSS. A MS supported target for linux via Maui is being discussed; and one of the MAUI developers already has a repo to support linux as a target that may possibly become an official branch. https://github.com/jsuarezruiz/maui-linux https://github.com/jsuarezruiz/maui-linux There is also the .net Community. Uno Platform (FOSS) & Avalonia (FOSS) are both .net based and target Linux and much more. The code is similar to programming for Xamarin/Maui, you can share most of the core code of your app between these targets. For Gaming: Unity and Monogame are OSS, Unity and Unity's editor is on Linux. MonoGame (OSS) (stardew valley) targets linux. Stride (3rd party engine) is also .net and targets Linux. Cryengine is also usable from .net. And last but not least: Godot can officially be programmed using .net. I am not worried as a "windows software developer" that I would be needing to switch stacks to target Linux. I can already make games or software target Linux from .net. - edited, clarity

beebeepka 5y ago

Good. One of those times when self serving is good for everyone. Ensuring we don't need MS is always a good thing

cheeseomlit 5y ago

Awesome, now I can finally play Cruelty Squad on the toilet. Time is money, CEO mindset