4 ms·

That's why "opt out" is not an ethical or practical solution. There needs to be a (legally mandated and enforced) requirement for such things to be opt-in.

routerl 5y ago
Agree with you completely, but companies/governments do not. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_paternalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_paternalism
retox 5y ago
Any opt-out agreement puts the user signing the contract at a disadvantage; the opt-out could be 'lost' and then the upper-hand in the agreement prefers the service providing the contract, the same party which has the most to gain from the 'loss'. Whereas an opt-in agreement defaults to the upper-hand in favor of the user if the contract is lost, forcing the owning party to keep careful track of the signature. Of course this doesn't preclude forged signatures/agreements.
- ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
  Every year I opt out of emails from Elsevier. Exactly one year later I get spam from one of their journals. I've taken to grabbing a screenshot of the opt-out screen before submitting, and writing them vaguely threatening emails over it.
- rozap 5y ago
  I've opted out of Verizon's spam texts, which I would get 3-5 times per day. But I didn't get the text offering me the ability to opt out of this shit, because I opted out of their texts. Cool.
amelius 5y ago
Even opt-in is not always the solution: https://stevestreza.com/2020/02/17/ios-adware/ https://stevestreza.com/2020/02/17/ios-adware/ Discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29356496 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29356496
willis936 5y ago
More than this, I was not even notified by VZW that I was being opted in. I've used VZW for many years, have opted out of surveillance for many years, then suddenly my mom texts me an NPR article and I check to find that I've been opted in to more surveillance? If companies are not legally required to inform me when details of a contract change, what else am I consenting to without my knowledge?

routerl 5y ago

Agree with you completely, but companies/governments do not. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_paternalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_paternalism

retox 5y ago

Any opt-out agreement puts the user signing the contract at a disadvantage; the opt-out could be 'lost' and then the upper-hand in the agreement prefers the service providing the contract, the same party which has the most to gain from the 'loss'. Whereas an opt-in agreement defaults to the upper-hand in favor of the user if the contract is lost, forcing the owning party to keep careful track of the signature. Of course this doesn't preclude forged signatures/agreements.

ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
Every year I opt out of emails from Elsevier. Exactly one year later I get spam from one of their journals. I've taken to grabbing a screenshot of the opt-out screen before submitting, and writing them vaguely threatening emails over it.
rozap 5y ago
I've opted out of Verizon's spam texts, which I would get 3-5 times per day. But I didn't get the text offering me the ability to opt out of this shit, because I opted out of their texts. Cool.

amelius 5y ago

Even opt-in is not always the solution: https://stevestreza.com/2020/02/17/ios-adware/ https://stevestreza.com/2020/02/17/ios-adware/ Discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29356496 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29356496

willis936 5y ago

More than this, I was not even notified by VZW that I was being opted in. I've used VZW for many years, have opted out of surveillance for many years, then suddenly my mom texts me an NPR article and I check to find that I've been opted in to more surveillance? If companies are not legally required to inform me when details of a contract change, what else am I consenting to without my knowledge?