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'At will' has noting to do with it. When payment is made for services not rendered, it's Fraud. If the employer has expectations that the employee 'does nothi

'At will' has noting to do with it. When payment is made for services not rendered, it's Fraud. If the employer has expectations that the employee 'does nothing' then it's fine, but that's almost assuredly not the case. This posture is not only toxic, but it's also unjust will spread into much greater malaise as others take up the mantle of 'doing nothing'. Literally a colleague I had over for dinner last night left his job, and the primary reason was 'many of my higher paid colleagues are not doing anything'. I'm not sure if he was more frustrated or jealous, and there were other issues, but he left just the same.

whateveracct 5y ago
Nothing in any of my FTE contracts has anything beyond "at-will." No explicit "money for such and such services rendered." There's literally no fraud here for a typical American FTE at-will employment arrangement. The worst-case scenario is getting fired from the job with no additional repercussions.
- ojilles 5y ago
  Does it not state a minimum amount of hours worked? If so, there’s a reasonable argument for fraud? ($x for y hours, but y hours were not delivered, only a fraction was.) Just so I’m clear; I don’t think that works at all in a knowledge worker environment, but tell that to the judge?
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    There's no mention of hours - only yearly salary, employed at-will.
    - ojilles 5y ago
      Gotcha (saw similar reply elsewhere in this thread). Ran into a US-EU difference here it seems like.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Literally a colleague I had over for dinner last night left his job, and the primary reason was 'many of my higher paid colleagues are not doing anything'" Surely if this was actual Fraud he should be filling a police report or lawsuit? Surely the all-knowing free market should punish companies that pay people to do nothing with its3 all powerfull invisible hand?
- Supermancho 5y ago
  > Surely if this was actual Fraud he should be filling a police report or lawsuit? In the US, if someone is defrauding someone else (in a civil matter), the best you an do is make a statement. ie https://nccriminallaw.com/news/criminal-fraud-vs-civil-fraud/ https://nccriminallaw.com/news/criminal-fraud-vs-civil-fraud...

whateveracct 5y ago

Nothing in any of my FTE contracts has anything beyond "at-will." No explicit "money for such and such services rendered." There's literally no fraud here for a typical American FTE at-will employment arrangement. The worst-case scenario is getting fired from the job with no additional repercussions.

ojilles 5y ago
Does it not state a minimum amount of hours worked? If so, there’s a reasonable argument for fraud? ($x for y hours, but y hours were not delivered, only a fraction was.) Just so I’m clear; I don’t think that works at all in a knowledge worker environment, but tell that to the judge?
- whateveracct 5y ago
  There's no mention of hours - only yearly salary, employed at-will.
  - ojilles 5y ago
    Gotcha (saw similar reply elsewhere in this thread). Ran into a US-EU difference here it seems like.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"Literally a colleague I had over for dinner last night left his job, and the primary reason was 'many of my higher paid colleagues are not doing anything'" Surely if this was actual Fraud he should be filling a police report or lawsuit? Surely the all-knowing free market should punish companies that pay people to do nothing with its3 all powerfull invisible hand?

Supermancho 5y ago
> Surely if this was actual Fraud he should be filling a police report or lawsuit? In the US, if someone is defrauding someone else (in a civil matter), the best you an do is make a statement. ie https://nccriminallaw.com/news/criminal-fraud-vs-civil-fraud/ https://nccriminallaw.com/news/criminal-fraud-vs-civil-fraud...