6 ms·

I think this is a very white, cisgendered view of the problem. If you fit within the mainstream beauty standards, great! You have some power over men and I thin

I think this is a very white, cisgendered view of the problem. If you fit within the mainstream beauty standards, great! You have some power over men and I think that’s awesome. If you don’t, most of the guys interested are fetishizing the things that make you not part of those standards. They’re looking for someone to fulfill a porno fantasy, not a partner. As a trans woman who passes for cis, I can tell you that lots of men want to sleep with me, but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me after I disclose that I’m trans (and from talking to women of color, this is not unique to trans women). There’s no power there other than transactional. So I’ve had to learn to always be on guard and find ways to filter out the fetishists to meet the men who aren’t ashamed to date me.

Chris2048 5y ago
> I can tell you that lots of men want to sleep with me, but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me Is this different from being a cis-woman?
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Yeah, very much so. Once you hit your 30s people are looking for more than hookups. I have cis girlfriends who have a much easier time finding decent guys. Heck I have no trouble finding them, they just don’t stick around after they find out I’m trans. I basically just gave up on men my age and date guys ~10 years younger since they don’t seem to have as much of a hangup about it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ketzo 5y ago
  I think the subtext is "a lot of men want to sleep with me only because I am a trans woman," and then are freaked out by the idea of actually dating her, which is an extremely common occurrence for trans women. There is, as OP alluded to, a very strong fetishization of non-white, non-cis women.
howinteresting 5y ago
It's Aella, is it a surprise it's a white and cis viewpoint? Aella is the one who runs Twitter polls like: "would you rather eliminate all dogs/members of a race": https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/1251327455966593024 https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/125132745596659... All that acid she's taken has really done a number on her.
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  I was trying to figure out as I read it if this viewpoint was coming from a man or a woman.
akyoan 5y ago
I’m not sure what your point is. You seem to have the Thing the article mentions and appear to be in the group of people who don’t like the game. What I read here is just that you’re just as discriminatory as the people who you complain about. I don’t see any mentions of race in the article and what it describes applies to most cultures and every race. Stop being racist and maybe people will stick around after receiving the Thing.
- ketzo 5y ago
  > Stop being racist What? The OP is trying to look at the premise of the post through a lens of race – non-white women are often fetishized by white men for their non-whiteness. I mean, shit, look at... any porn site. And they're right – fetishization makes for a totally different dating experience, a different experience of The Thing. Where is the racism here? Is just mentioning the idea of race somehow racist?
  - gorwell 5y ago
    What would you call it when someone is obsessed with race and views skin color as paramount? Squeezing everything through that lens and making judgements on that basis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg
    - ketzo 5y ago
      Looking to examine an argument through the context of physical appearance, in an article about physical appearances, does not speak to me of obsession or "squeezing." We're talking about fetishization, sexual gaze, and power dynamics. It would be irresponsible to not talk about the role that race plays in this conversation.
      - akyoan 5y ago
        > It would be irresponsible to not talk about the role that race plays in this conversation. Hard disagree. What you're saying reminds me of Seinfeld’s "Not that there's anything wrong with that" suffix and "I'm not racist, but" starter. You don't have to mention things that are obvious, you're just making the conversation awkward. I fail to see how talking about race (keep reading) changes anything about the the concept at hand: People want you because you have "the Thing, and maybe only the Thing." "Being an Asian woman" itself can be the Thing, that's still covered by the article.
pwdisswordfish0 5y ago
>They’re looking for someone to fulfill a porno fantasy, not a partner. That seems pretty obvious considering one want is a subset of the other. If I’m physically attracted to you but not in other ways, I can still want to have sex with you. That’s a single box to be ticked, whereas “potential partner” is the title of the entire checklist. Surely this is a ubiquitous phenomenon that applies to mainstream beauties as well. In fact, you’ll hear them complain about it, too, as described in TFA.
- ketzo 5y ago
  Having part of your identity/physical existence fetishized is suuuuper different from just being wanted.
tonguez 5y ago
Please go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.
throwaway8582 5y ago
> but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me after I disclose that I’m trans I'd guess most of the men that are looking for a "real relationship" are doing so because they want to find somebody to have children with, especially at 30+. In general they are not going to invest time and energy into building a relationship with someone that lacks the proper organs to conceive a child.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  I’m older than a cis woman would reasonably be expected to be able to conceive without extensive effort. And I’m 100% ok with adopting.

Chris2048 5y ago

> I can tell you that lots of men want to sleep with me, but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me Is this different from being a cis-woman?

wayoutthere 5y ago
Yeah, very much so. Once you hit your 30s people are looking for more than hookups. I have cis girlfriends who have a much easier time finding decent guys. Heck I have no trouble finding them, they just don’t stick around after they find out I’m trans. I basically just gave up on men my age and date guys ~10 years younger since they don’t seem to have as much of a hangup about it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ketzo 5y ago
I think the subtext is "a lot of men want to sleep with me only because I am a trans woman," and then are freaked out by the idea of actually dating her, which is an extremely common occurrence for trans women. There is, as OP alluded to, a very strong fetishization of non-white, non-cis women.

howinteresting 5y ago

It's Aella, is it a surprise it's a white and cis viewpoint? Aella is the one who runs Twitter polls like: "would you rather eliminate all dogs/members of a race": https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/1251327455966593024 https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/125132745596659... All that acid she's taken has really done a number on her.

commandlinefan 5y ago
I was trying to figure out as I read it if this viewpoint was coming from a man or a woman.

akyoan 5y ago

I’m not sure what your point is. You seem to have the Thing the article mentions and appear to be in the group of people who don’t like the game. What I read here is just that you’re just as discriminatory as the people who you complain about. I don’t see any mentions of race in the article and what it describes applies to most cultures and every race. Stop being racist and maybe people will stick around after receiving the Thing.

ketzo 5y ago
> Stop being racist What? The OP is trying to look at the premise of the post through a lens of race – non-white women are often fetishized by white men for their non-whiteness. I mean, shit, look at... any porn site. And they're right – fetishization makes for a totally different dating experience, a different experience of The Thing. Where is the racism here? Is just mentioning the idea of race somehow racist?
- gorwell 5y ago
  What would you call it when someone is obsessed with race and views skin color as paramount? Squeezing everything through that lens and making judgements on that basis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg
  - ketzo 5y ago
    Looking to examine an argument through the context of physical appearance, in an article about physical appearances, does not speak to me of obsession or "squeezing." We're talking about fetishization, sexual gaze, and power dynamics. It would be irresponsible to not talk about the role that race plays in this conversation.
    - akyoan 5y ago
      > It would be irresponsible to not talk about the role that race plays in this conversation. Hard disagree. What you're saying reminds me of Seinfeld’s "Not that there's anything wrong with that" suffix and "I'm not racist, but" starter. You don't have to mention things that are obvious, you're just making the conversation awkward. I fail to see how talking about race (keep reading) changes anything about the the concept at hand: People want you because you have "the Thing, and maybe only the Thing." "Being an Asian woman" itself can be the Thing, that's still covered by the article.

pwdisswordfish0 5y ago

>They’re looking for someone to fulfill a porno fantasy, not a partner. That seems pretty obvious considering one want is a subset of the other. If I’m physically attracted to you but not in other ways, I can still want to have sex with you. That’s a single box to be ticked, whereas “potential partner” is the title of the entire checklist. Surely this is a ubiquitous phenomenon that applies to mainstream beauties as well. In fact, you’ll hear them complain about it, too, as described in TFA.

ketzo 5y ago
Having part of your identity/physical existence fetishized is suuuuper different from just being wanted.

tonguez 5y ago

Please go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.

throwaway8582 5y ago

> but far fewer want to have a real relationship with me after I disclose that I’m trans I'd guess most of the men that are looking for a "real relationship" are doing so because they want to find somebody to have children with, especially at 30+. In general they are not going to invest time and energy into building a relationship with someone that lacks the proper organs to conceive a child.

wayoutthere 5y ago
I’m older than a cis woman would reasonably be expected to be able to conceive without extensive effort. And I’m 100% ok with adopting.