11 ms·

Blame the fans, so what is the next thing they will remove, floors above 2nd, sharp objects, electricity? Everything else but not the cause ...

PostThisTooFast 5y ago
Step 2: Remove the students
Ygg2 5y ago
However making suicide harder, does reduce the suicide rate. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves-lives/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...
- stevefan1999 5y ago
  and people who wanted to kill himself will eventually do it regardlessly
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    That's precisely the opposite of the point being made in the parent comment's link. Do you have any rebuttal to the evidence that source contains?
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    That is a common meme, but it’s wrong. For every ten people who attempt suicide and fail, only one will eventually die by suicide[0]. 70% of survivors will never even reattempt suicide, and only 7% or so of suicide survivors will eventually successfully commit suicide. Furthermore, I’m disturbed by the cavalier attitude here. Suicide isn’t a predestined thing that we’re helpless to prevent as a society. There is real suffering and we can do something about it in aggregate. Framing it as something “they’ll do anyways” is both factually incorrect, and absolves society of any responsibility to help prevent suicide. 0 - https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survi...
    - laumars 5y ago
      > Furthermore, I’m disturbed by the cavalier attitude here. Suicide isn’t a predestined thing that we’re helpless to prevent as a society. That wasn’t the point that people were making. The point they were making is that removing fans doesn’t address the underlying mental health issues. If anything, arguing that everyone is ok now because fewer people are dying is the cavalier attitude because it overlooks the daily struggles that many will still be having. Thus regardless of the points you’ve put excellently in your first paragraph, the students mental health issues do also need to be addressed too. So I see your rebuttal as complimentary to the other points rather than fully dismissing them (ie it shouldn’t be “either/or” but rather “both things needs doing”).
      - ashtonkem 5y ago
        > That wasn’t the point that people were making. The point they were making is that removing fans doesn’t address the underlying mental health issues. That is a fair argument, but not how I interpreted GP. In the context it seemed like they were arguing against any measure that removes means of suicide away from people because “they’ll just do it regardless”. > If anything, arguing that everyone is ok now because fewer people are dying Literally nobody here is saying this. Everyone here has acknowledged that this doesn’t solve the underlying mental health issues (or material issues, per a now dead comment), but might be a good band aid (over a “bullet wound” per another commenter). What’s more common here is the acknowledgment that this doesn’t solve the mental health issue, and the grim realization that the university won’t do anything about it either way.
        laumars 5y ago
        > Literally nobody here is saying this. This then demonstrates how hard it is to understand the full context of a comment from only the short post and, I hope, makes you appreciate how important it is to assume a more charitable interpretation. As for the rest of your post: I think we are in complete agreement.
        nosianu 5y ago
        > that removes means of suicide No, it's ab out removing important equipment. Fans in hot weather really help if you don't have AC, As far as I know it gets quite hot in (all of) India. Now their fans are gone as a "hack" for some other problem. At the very least, life of those students will be more uncomfortable. Ceiling fans also have a number of advantages over others, like being mostly noiseless and creating vertical movement, so replacing them with desk fans won't be as good.
- kfarr 5y ago
  However removing the fan ostensibly makes the room warmer, which increases the suicide rate. https://news.stanford.edu/2018/07/23/warming-temperatures-linked-increased-suicide-rates/ https://news.stanford.edu/2018/07/23/warming-temperatures-li...
  - irjustin 5y ago
    From the article, the data is muddy and cause-effect is not claimable: > For example, the effects in Texas are some of the highest in the country. Suicide rates have not declined over recent decades, even with the introduction and wide adaptation of air conditioning. If anything, the researchers say, the effect has grown stronger over time.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    They are replacing ceiling fans with wall mounted fans, otherwise non suicide death by heat exhaustion would increase. India is a poorer developing country, so actual AC in the dorms is still out of the question.
    - rg111 5y ago
      This is literally the #1 institute in India. If they want, they can get ACs.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Why would you think that? The top universities in places like India and China get their positions mainly by selecting the brightest students, they don’t actually throw a lot resources their way, and these students are often paying their living expenses themselves or with a small stipend or subsidy.
        rg111 5y ago
        No, I know multiple people who presently live there and have lived there in the past. This is also one of the richest universities of India- not merely one of the best. I also heard of someone who studied medicine at AIIMS Delhi. It is another of rich institutions of India. The rooms, although small, will match a 3 star hotel in terms of amenities. The same is simply not true for IISc. Despite being one of the richest unis of India, their amenities do not match that of AIIMS Delhi. But that institute is not cash-sterved as Indian institutes go. The labs are great, the faculties are the same. Many of them can easily teach at any US uni. What I think is the reason of absence of ACs in rooms is the Bangalore weather. During most of the year, you really don't need an AC or even a ceiling fan.
- NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
  As there are many ways to commit suicide, school could equally tie everyone in padded cells, and tube feed students in order to avoid any suicide. Be careful when using such studies, as future AI may use those and similar - to remove all freedoms from humans, arguing that humans are dangerous for themselves, thus creating new Matrix?! Root cause can be maybe a terrible education system and society that is fit more for robots then humans. It just feels wrong blaming individuals for not wanting to participate in it.
  - taneq 5y ago
    Thus creating a NEW Matrix? You've said too much!
    - weregiraffe 5y ago
      This will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
    - NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
      Imaginative scenario so to politely avoid pointing finger to overly corrupt governments and individuals that could use similar excuse to limit your freedom, in one way or another.
- SapporoChris 5y ago
  It's a boondoggle. With a bonus effect of increasing deaths from extreme heat. Now, it might seem rude of me, but I am against killing people that want to live in order to maybe save people that want to die. edit In addition, 88 per cent of students said they did not think that “replacing ceiling fans with wall-mounted fans in all IISc hostels (would) help curb student suicide”. Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/city/students-say-iisc-removing-fans-to-prevent-suicides-1061221.html https://www.deccanherald.com/city/students-say-iisc-removing... I still say it's a boondoggle, the resources could be better spent elsewhere. However, this looks like a really small matter, one institute of learning a relatively small number of suicides. I'm going to relax and not worry about it. end edit
  - bongoman37 5y ago
    Bangalore has fairly moderate climate, and also, they are providing wall mounted fans instead of ceiling fans.
  - neuroma 5y ago
    > Now, it might seem rude of me, but I am against killing people that want to live in order to maybe save people that want to die. The point is that most times people who commit suicide don't want to die, they simply feel life is currently so awful, and they is so little hope of change, that there is no alternative. Those thoughts are usually transitory and people on the other side express relief that steps were taken to stop them, buying time in which to heal.
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    * Bangalore has negligible deaths from extreme heat. It does not get very hot there. * Student polling is not a good way of assessing the likely impact on suicides.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  And making food harder to get reduces obesity.
Borrible 5y ago
> The institute is also said to have started to restrict student access to terraces and rooftops Apparently, they already thought about that.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Assuming teenagers and low 20 something’s are the similar the world over, they should have restricted access to terraces and rooftops for a variety of reasons unrelated to suicide. Alcohol and heights tend not to be very close friends, and my college restricted access to the latter as much as they could (the former was a lost cause).
  - Borrible 5y ago
    As a father of two in that age group, I would prefer to restrict their access especially to my precious world of perfect tranquility. Assuming teenagers and low 20 something's are the similar the world over, which I find a bit debatable, there still is the question whether there were or are better models to cope with puberty and coming of age for the individual and society.
  - perth 5y ago
    Honestly my university giving us rooftop access for working on and setting up radio equipment was one of the most educational and enriching things I did there. Restricting access to rooftops for students seems like a terrible idea for education, where a lot of science literally happens on rooftops, whether with antennas or telescopes. (some students used the rooftop access to monitor fukushima reactor radiation in the atmosphere as well!) Also: Never had a single accident or suicide for over 2 decades
    - medstrom 5y ago
      You could get a ladder if you need a rooftop for a science project, right?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
ricardobeat 5y ago
Next step is to remove the students. Problem solved!

PostThisTooFast 5y ago

Step 2: Remove the students

Ygg2 5y ago

However making suicide harder, does reduce the suicide rate. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves-lives/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...

stevefan1999 5y ago
and people who wanted to kill himself will eventually do it regardlessly
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  That's precisely the opposite of the point being made in the parent comment's link. Do you have any rebuttal to the evidence that source contains?
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  That is a common meme, but it’s wrong. For every ten people who attempt suicide and fail, only one will eventually die by suicide[0]. 70% of survivors will never even reattempt suicide, and only 7% or so of suicide survivors will eventually successfully commit suicide. Furthermore, I’m disturbed by the cavalier attitude here. Suicide isn’t a predestined thing that we’re helpless to prevent as a society. There is real suffering and we can do something about it in aggregate. Framing it as something “they’ll do anyways” is both factually incorrect, and absolves society of any responsibility to help prevent suicide. 0 - https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survi...
  - laumars 5y ago
    > Furthermore, I’m disturbed by the cavalier attitude here. Suicide isn’t a predestined thing that we’re helpless to prevent as a society. That wasn’t the point that people were making. The point they were making is that removing fans doesn’t address the underlying mental health issues. If anything, arguing that everyone is ok now because fewer people are dying is the cavalier attitude because it overlooks the daily struggles that many will still be having. Thus regardless of the points you’ve put excellently in your first paragraph, the students mental health issues do also need to be addressed too. So I see your rebuttal as complimentary to the other points rather than fully dismissing them (ie it shouldn’t be “either/or” but rather “both things needs doing”).
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      > That wasn’t the point that people were making. The point they were making is that removing fans doesn’t address the underlying mental health issues. That is a fair argument, but not how I interpreted GP. In the context it seemed like they were arguing against any measure that removes means of suicide away from people because “they’ll just do it regardless”. > If anything, arguing that everyone is ok now because fewer people are dying Literally nobody here is saying this. Everyone here has acknowledged that this doesn’t solve the underlying mental health issues (or material issues, per a now dead comment), but might be a good band aid (over a “bullet wound” per another commenter). What’s more common here is the acknowledgment that this doesn’t solve the mental health issue, and the grim realization that the university won’t do anything about it either way.
      - laumars 5y ago
        > Literally nobody here is saying this. This then demonstrates how hard it is to understand the full context of a comment from only the short post and, I hope, makes you appreciate how important it is to assume a more charitable interpretation. As for the rest of your post: I think we are in complete agreement.
      - nosianu 5y ago
        > that removes means of suicide No, it's ab out removing important equipment. Fans in hot weather really help if you don't have AC, As far as I know it gets quite hot in (all of) India. Now their fans are gone as a "hack" for some other problem. At the very least, life of those students will be more uncomfortable. Ceiling fans also have a number of advantages over others, like being mostly noiseless and creating vertical movement, so replacing them with desk fans won't be as good.
kfarr 5y ago
However removing the fan ostensibly makes the room warmer, which increases the suicide rate. https://news.stanford.edu/2018/07/23/warming-temperatures-linked-increased-suicide-rates/ https://news.stanford.edu/2018/07/23/warming-temperatures-li...
- irjustin 5y ago
  From the article, the data is muddy and cause-effect is not claimable: > For example, the effects in Texas are some of the highest in the country. Suicide rates have not declined over recent decades, even with the introduction and wide adaptation of air conditioning. If anything, the researchers say, the effect has grown stronger over time.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  They are replacing ceiling fans with wall mounted fans, otherwise non suicide death by heat exhaustion would increase. India is a poorer developing country, so actual AC in the dorms is still out of the question.
  - rg111 5y ago
    This is literally the #1 institute in India. If they want, they can get ACs.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Why would you think that? The top universities in places like India and China get their positions mainly by selecting the brightest students, they don’t actually throw a lot resources their way, and these students are often paying their living expenses themselves or with a small stipend or subsidy.
      - rg111 5y ago
        No, I know multiple people who presently live there and have lived there in the past. This is also one of the richest universities of India- not merely one of the best. I also heard of someone who studied medicine at AIIMS Delhi. It is another of rich institutions of India. The rooms, although small, will match a 3 star hotel in terms of amenities. The same is simply not true for IISc. Despite being one of the richest unis of India, their amenities do not match that of AIIMS Delhi. But that institute is not cash-sterved as Indian institutes go. The labs are great, the faculties are the same. Many of them can easily teach at any US uni. What I think is the reason of absence of ACs in rooms is the Bangalore weather. During most of the year, you really don't need an AC or even a ceiling fan.
NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
As there are many ways to commit suicide, school could equally tie everyone in padded cells, and tube feed students in order to avoid any suicide. Be careful when using such studies, as future AI may use those and similar - to remove all freedoms from humans, arguing that humans are dangerous for themselves, thus creating new Matrix?! Root cause can be maybe a terrible education system and society that is fit more for robots then humans. It just feels wrong blaming individuals for not wanting to participate in it.
- taneq 5y ago
  Thus creating a NEW Matrix? You've said too much!
  - weregiraffe 5y ago
    This will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
  - NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
    Imaginative scenario so to politely avoid pointing finger to overly corrupt governments and individuals that could use similar excuse to limit your freedom, in one way or another.
SapporoChris 5y ago
It's a boondoggle. With a bonus effect of increasing deaths from extreme heat. Now, it might seem rude of me, but I am against killing people that want to live in order to maybe save people that want to die. edit In addition, 88 per cent of students said they did not think that “replacing ceiling fans with wall-mounted fans in all IISc hostels (would) help curb student suicide”. Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/city/students-say-iisc-removing-fans-to-prevent-suicides-1061221.html https://www.deccanherald.com/city/students-say-iisc-removing... I still say it's a boondoggle, the resources could be better spent elsewhere. However, this looks like a really small matter, one institute of learning a relatively small number of suicides. I'm going to relax and not worry about it. end edit
- bongoman37 5y ago
  Bangalore has fairly moderate climate, and also, they are providing wall mounted fans instead of ceiling fans.
- neuroma 5y ago
  > Now, it might seem rude of me, but I am against killing people that want to live in order to maybe save people that want to die. The point is that most times people who commit suicide don't want to die, they simply feel life is currently so awful, and they is so little hope of change, that there is no alternative. Those thoughts are usually transitory and people on the other side express relief that steps were taken to stop them, buying time in which to heal.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  * Bangalore has negligible deaths from extreme heat. It does not get very hot there. * Student polling is not a good way of assessing the likely impact on suicides.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
And making food harder to get reduces obesity.

Borrible 5y ago

> The institute is also said to have started to restrict student access to terraces and rooftops Apparently, they already thought about that.

ashtonkem 5y ago
Assuming teenagers and low 20 something’s are the similar the world over, they should have restricted access to terraces and rooftops for a variety of reasons unrelated to suicide. Alcohol and heights tend not to be very close friends, and my college restricted access to the latter as much as they could (the former was a lost cause).
- Borrible 5y ago
  As a father of two in that age group, I would prefer to restrict their access especially to my precious world of perfect tranquility. Assuming teenagers and low 20 something's are the similar the world over, which I find a bit debatable, there still is the question whether there were or are better models to cope with puberty and coming of age for the individual and society.
- perth 5y ago
  Honestly my university giving us rooftop access for working on and setting up radio equipment was one of the most educational and enriching things I did there. Restricting access to rooftops for students seems like a terrible idea for education, where a lot of science literally happens on rooftops, whether with antennas or telescopes. (some students used the rooftop access to monitor fukushima reactor radiation in the atmosphere as well!) Also: Never had a single accident or suicide for over 2 decades
  - medstrom 5y ago
    You could get a ladder if you need a rooftop for a science project, right?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

ricardobeat 5y ago

Next step is to remove the students. Problem solved!