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> Companies are requiring the vaccine because they make employees less likely to miss work due to illness. Then if I don't want to get a vaccine, I'll sign an

> Companies are requiring the vaccine because they make employees less likely to miss work due to illness. Then if I don't want to get a vaccine, I'll sign an agreement that if I get sick and miss work, I don't get paid, and that's the end of it.

tjpnz 5y ago
That covers you but what about the members of staff who actually have a genuine reason for not receiving the vaccine? Peter in ops recently received a double lung transplant and no longer has a functioning immune system. Are you prepared to also sign an agreement barring yourself from ever walking into one of our offices or attending social gatherings?
- efficax 5y ago
  People with compromised immune systems need the shot even more
- native_samples 5y ago
  If Peter in ops has no immune system, he will get sick from non-COVID viruses or diseases regardless of what is done by other people. In that hypothetical situation it would be him who shouldn't go to an office, not other people.
  - Volundr 5y ago
    I'm not sure why you immediately assume this is hypothetical. I know a couple people in similar situations. They exist and are not so uncommon as to assume the OP is making it up. It's also not the doom scenario you describe. Yes they have to take extra precautions, and yes the people around then have to make a point to not be around when they are sick, but with a little consideration plenty of people with highly compromised immune systems live meaningful lives.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
vlovich123 5y ago
That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective so prolonged exposure in indoor spaces increases chances. Some people also are immuno compromised and can’t be vaccinated so you’d be putting them at risk too. Are you going to start paying for their sick time too and signing away that you’re personally liable for deaths?
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  > That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. That's not how vaccines against COVID-19 work. They diminish the risk of severe illness and death, not transmission rates.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    I keep hearing this in this thread but I don’t follow. > Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people ages 18 years and older, the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected. If you’re prevent infection, aren’t you effectively reducing the R0 by definition? How is the vaccine making it harder to infect not reduce transmission rates? [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Moderna.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...
    - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
      Yes, these are the original data from clinical studies. Now, in real life, a few months later the efficiency has dwindled considerably [0]: > Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear. [0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...
      - vlovich123 5y ago
sokoloff 5y ago
Which just leads to employees coming while sick, which is a pretty bad non-solution.
williamdclt 5y ago
When I miss work, it costs the company much more than my salary. Otherwise what would be the point of hiring me, if I cost exactly as much as what the value I bring to the company? And that's not even accounting for the fact that if you get sick, you might infect others in your company.

tjpnz 5y ago

That covers you but what about the members of staff who actually have a genuine reason for not receiving the vaccine? Peter in ops recently received a double lung transplant and no longer has a functioning immune system. Are you prepared to also sign an agreement barring yourself from ever walking into one of our offices or attending social gatherings?

efficax 5y ago
People with compromised immune systems need the shot even more
native_samples 5y ago
If Peter in ops has no immune system, he will get sick from non-COVID viruses or diseases regardless of what is done by other people. In that hypothetical situation it would be him who shouldn't go to an office, not other people.
- Volundr 5y ago
  I'm not sure why you immediately assume this is hypothetical. I know a couple people in similar situations. They exist and are not so uncommon as to assume the OP is making it up. It's also not the doom scenario you describe. Yes they have to take extra precautions, and yes the people around then have to make a point to not be around when they are sick, but with a little consideration plenty of people with highly compromised immune systems live meaningful lives.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

vlovich123 5y ago

That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective so prolonged exposure in indoor spaces increases chances. Some people also are immuno compromised and can’t be vaccinated so you’d be putting them at risk too. Are you going to start paying for their sick time too and signing away that you’re personally liable for deaths?

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
> That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. That's not how vaccines against COVID-19 work. They diminish the risk of severe illness and death, not transmission rates.
- vlovich123 5y ago
  I keep hearing this in this thread but I don’t follow. > Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people ages 18 years and older, the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected. If you’re prevent infection, aren’t you effectively reducing the R0 by definition? How is the vaccine making it harder to infect not reduce transmission rates? [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Moderna.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    Yes, these are the original data from clinical studies. Now, in real life, a few months later the efficiency has dwindled considerably [0]: > Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear. [0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...
    - vlovich123 5y ago

sokoloff 5y ago

Which just leads to employees coming while sick, which is a pretty bad non-solution.

williamdclt 5y ago

When I miss work, it costs the company much more than my salary. Otherwise what would be the point of hiring me, if I cost exactly as much as what the value I bring to the company? And that's not even accounting for the fact that if you get sick, you might infect others in your company.