9 ms·

It's capitulation to coercion, which has its own side effects.

by nsxwolf 5y ago

C19is20 5y ago
Like rickets?
CabSauce 5y ago
That's why I drink and drive as much as I want. Can't let the man tell me what to do! /s
- dontblink 5y ago
  Don't forget about seat belts!
- kiba 5y ago
  The reason why drunk driving is so dangerous is because of the choices of past governments to make implicit subsidies for cars and urban planners making car dependent suburbia. Our choices are already constrained before we even realize it and yet people chose to die on the vaccination hill.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  You employer is checking what you drink before you drive? If not, that's a pretty bad analogy.
  - Volundr 5y ago
    When I was driving a company vehicle for my job? Hell yes they were.
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      So they were checking every morning when you were taking your company car that you had no alcohol in your blood? How did that work? Your boss was waiting at the door?
tjpnz 5y ago
There are bigger, better and more productive hills to die on if you don't enjoy being told what to do.
epistasis 5y ago
You're talking about employment where the employer makes much much of off your labor than you will ever receive, and you are powerless to demand your fair share. Yet instead, a safe workplace is the coercive part? If you don't want to be coerced, you had better not be an employee with wages. Go out there and start your own business.
- refurb 5y ago
  It’s hilarious to see HN flip from “I dream of a future where no one has to work and fall under the yoke of greedy employers” to “just get injected with this drug and be thankful you have a job; don’t get it and you deserve to starve”.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. > don’t get it and you deserve to starve It's not by chance that you have to make up ridiculous words and put them in my mouth to attempt to criticize the comment, either in this part where I quoted you, or in the weird assertion about no one having to work.
    - acdha 5y ago
      > The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. That's the part I've found so disappointing about this: a couple of decades of development and we have a massive breakthrough in our ability to rapidly create and update vaccines which precisely target near-arbitrary targets. Seeing what would have been a sci-fi technology when I was a kid being the target of so many conspiracy theories must be incredibly disappointing to all of the actual medical experts who worked so hard on this.
      - native_samples 5y ago
        Those medical experts should look at themselves for why people react this way. An absolute refusal to accept any legal liability for harms done by the product, whilst simultaneously insisting it's perfectly safe? Check. Claims that anyone worried about long term effects is a crazy malicious person when Moderna was failing to progress beyond animal trials due to multi-dose toxicity as recently as 2017? Check. [2] Fanatical insistence on forced vaccination, even when the logical basis for mandates has been invalidated by equal infectiousness? Check. [1] Constantly shifting claims about effectiveness, invalidated within months yet all presented with absolute confidence? Check. Insistence that nobody look at the database of injuries and papers which do so should be retracted, despite it existing specifically to be analyzed? Check. A million different non-vaccine explanations for the sudden spike in public heart attacks, none of which are remotely plausible? Check. We could go on for many pages of this. The medical/public health establishment has consistently wrecked their own credibility and acted in untrustworthy, suspicion-raising ways. They don't then get to make a sad face and say "but sci fi". Let us know when Pfizer/Moderna can be taken to court for injuries and deaths caused by their sci-fi tech, and interest will grow. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7... [2] https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/
wedowhatwedo 5y ago
At my restaurant we save money by never cleaning the kitchen. No one should coerce me into doing something where it is not necessary. Cleaning wastes my time and money and it's my freedom to not clean! No one should take that freedom away in a free country!
- Chris2048 5y ago
  Sure, but do you get to pretend your kitchen is clean at the same time?
handrous 5y ago
It hadn't occurred to me that this might lead a whole bunch of people, who didn't previously, to regard the employment relationship as fundamentally coercive. Hm. I'm now torn on this.

It's capitulation to coercion, which has its own side effects.

C19is20 5y ago

Like rickets?

CabSauce 5y ago

That's why I drink and drive as much as I want. Can't let the man tell me what to do! /s

dontblink 5y ago
Don't forget about seat belts!
kiba 5y ago
The reason why drunk driving is so dangerous is because of the choices of past governments to make implicit subsidies for cars and urban planners making car dependent suburbia. Our choices are already constrained before we even realize it and yet people chose to die on the vaccination hill.
ekianjo 5y ago
You employer is checking what you drink before you drive? If not, that's a pretty bad analogy.
- Volundr 5y ago
  When I was driving a company vehicle for my job? Hell yes they were.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    So they were checking every morning when you were taking your company car that you had no alcohol in your blood? How did that work? Your boss was waiting at the door?

tjpnz 5y ago

There are bigger, better and more productive hills to die on if you don't enjoy being told what to do.

epistasis 5y ago

You're talking about employment where the employer makes much much of off your labor than you will ever receive, and you are powerless to demand your fair share. Yet instead, a safe workplace is the coercive part? If you don't want to be coerced, you had better not be an employee with wages. Go out there and start your own business.

refurb 5y ago
It’s hilarious to see HN flip from “I dream of a future where no one has to work and fall under the yoke of greedy employers” to “just get injected with this drug and be thankful you have a job; don’t get it and you deserve to starve”.
- epistasis 5y ago
  The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. > don’t get it and you deserve to starve It's not by chance that you have to make up ridiculous words and put them in my mouth to attempt to criticize the comment, either in this part where I quoted you, or in the weird assertion about no one having to work.
  - acdha 5y ago
    > The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. That's the part I've found so disappointing about this: a couple of decades of development and we have a massive breakthrough in our ability to rapidly create and update vaccines which precisely target near-arbitrary targets. Seeing what would have been a sci-fi technology when I was a kid being the target of so many conspiracy theories must be incredibly disappointing to all of the actual medical experts who worked so hard on this.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      Those medical experts should look at themselves for why people react this way. An absolute refusal to accept any legal liability for harms done by the product, whilst simultaneously insisting it's perfectly safe? Check. Claims that anyone worried about long term effects is a crazy malicious person when Moderna was failing to progress beyond animal trials due to multi-dose toxicity as recently as 2017? Check. [2] Fanatical insistence on forced vaccination, even when the logical basis for mandates has been invalidated by equal infectiousness? Check. [1] Constantly shifting claims about effectiveness, invalidated within months yet all presented with absolute confidence? Check. Insistence that nobody look at the database of injuries and papers which do so should be retracted, despite it existing specifically to be analyzed? Check. A million different non-vaccine explanations for the sudden spike in public heart attacks, none of which are remotely plausible? Check. We could go on for many pages of this. The medical/public health establishment has consistently wrecked their own credibility and acted in untrustworthy, suspicion-raising ways. They don't then get to make a sad face and say "but sci fi". Let us know when Pfizer/Moderna can be taken to court for injuries and deaths caused by their sci-fi tech, and interest will grow. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7... [2] https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/

wedowhatwedo 5y ago

At my restaurant we save money by never cleaning the kitchen. No one should coerce me into doing something where it is not necessary. Cleaning wastes my time and money and it's my freedom to not clean! No one should take that freedom away in a free country!

Chris2048 5y ago
Sure, but do you get to pretend your kitchen is clean at the same time?

handrous 5y ago

It hadn't occurred to me that this might lead a whole bunch of people, who didn't previously, to regard the employment relationship as fundamentally coercive. Hm. I'm now torn on this.