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We were promised this wouldn't happen by our governments last year right? It feels like the public are building their own prisons. Why are private companies st
by dablweb 5y ago
We were promised this wouldn't happen by our governments last year right?
It feels like the public are building their own prisons. Why are private companies stuck policing these absurd policies?
- kiba 5y agoUnless you have medical exemption, it's just a jab in the arm?
- nsxwolf 5y agoIt's capitulation to coercion, which has its own side effects.
- C19is20 5y agoLike rickets?
- CabSauce 5y agoThat's why I drink and drive as much as I want. Can't let the man tell me what to do! /s
- dontblink 5y agoDon't forget about seat belts!
- kiba 5y agoThe reason why drunk driving is so dangerous is because of the choices of past governments to make implicit subsidies for cars and urban planners making car dependent suburbia. Our choices are already constrained before we even realize it and yet people chose to die on the vaccination hill.
- ekianjo 5y agoYou employer is checking what you drink before you drive? If not, that's a pretty bad analogy.
- tjpnz 5y agoThere are bigger, better and more productive hills to die on if you don't enjoy being told what to do.
- epistasis 5y agoYou're talking about employment where the employer makes much much of off your labor than you will ever receive, and you are powerless to demand your fair share. Yet instead, a safe workplace is the coercive part? If you don't want to be coerced, you had better not be an employee with wages. Go out there and start your own business.
- refurb 5y agoIt’s hilarious to see HN flip from “I dream of a future where no one has to work and fall under the yoke of greedy employers” to “just get injected with this drug and be thankful you have a job; don’t get it and you deserve to starve”.
- epistasis 5y agoThe vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. > don’t get it and you deserve to starve It's not by chance that you have to make up ridiculous words and put them in my mouth to attempt to criticize the comment, either in this part where I quoted you, or in the weird assertion about no one having to work.
- acdha 5y ago> The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. That's the part I've found so disappointing about this: a couple of decades of development and we have a massive breakthrough in our ability to rapidly create and update vaccines which precisely target near-arbitrary targets. Seeing what would have been a sci-fi technology when I was a kid being the target of so many conspiracy theories must be incredibly disappointing to all of the actual medical experts who worked so hard on this.
- native_samples 5y agoThose medical experts should look at themselves for why people react this way. An absolute refusal to accept any legal liability for harms done by the product, whilst simultaneously insisting it's perfectly safe? Check. Claims that anyone worried about long term effects is a crazy malicious person when Moderna was failing to progress beyond animal trials due to multi-dose toxicity as recently as 2017? Check. [2] Fanatical insistence on forced vaccination, even when the logical basis for mandates has been invalidated by equal infectiousness? Check. [1] Constantly shifting claims about effectiveness, invalidated within months yet all presented with absolute confidence? Check. Insistence that nobody look at the database of injuries and papers which do so should be retracted, despite it existing specifically to be analyzed? Check. A million different non-vaccine explanations for the sudden spike in public heart attacks, none of which are remotely plausible? Check. We could go on for many pages of this. The medical/public health establishment has consistently wrecked their own credibility and acted in untrustworthy, suspicion-raising ways. They don't then get to make a sad face and say "but sci fi". Let us know when Pfizer/Moderna can be taken to court for injuries and deaths caused by their sci-fi tech, and interest will grow. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7... [2] https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/
- wedowhatwedo 5y agoAt my restaurant we save money by never cleaning the kitchen. No one should coerce me into doing something where it is not necessary. Cleaning wastes my time and money and it's my freedom to not clean! No one should take that freedom away in a free country!
- Chris2048 5y agoSure, but do you get to pretend your kitchen is clean at the same time?
- handrous 5y agoIt hadn't occurred to me that this might lead a whole bunch of people, who didn't previously, to regard the employment relationship as fundamentally coercive. Hm. I'm now torn on this.
- cfcf14 5y agoFor many people, it's more than just a jab, it's 1-3 days of being quite unwell. I have no underlying health conditions, but I've been bedridden by my 2nd shot and booster shots, with a high fever, fatigue, dizziness, and aches for at least 48 hours. My partner who is immuno-compromised is worse off, generally being very ill for 1-2 weeks after each jab. Her case is somewhat different though, as her situation is just all round unfortunate. I'm not saying I won't continue to comply with all health advisories for vaccination or other public safety measures, and I'm not saying vaccines aren't worth it for society. But it's not "just" a jab.
- wedowhatwedo 5y agoThis is why the company I work for will give you up to three paid days off after getting a vaccine shot. Feeling bad after the shot should not be a reason to not get it.
- input_sh 5y agoHell, mine even reimbursed traveling to another country before they were available to the general public in my own country.
- moonchrome 5y agoThe pro vaccination camp has been more annoying than the antivaxers - at least the nutjobs are easy to filter out, it takes soo long to wade through the bullshit when it's veiled as facts.
- Ekaros 5y agoWhy can't companies mandate a lobotomy then? After all it is just jab in the brain. You hardly notice it if you receive it...
- wedowhatwedo 5y agoYes they can do that. They can then complain about the huge labor shortage.
- Chris2048 5y agoLobotomising people would create a surge of labour for many tech corps..
- artificialLimbs 5y ago>> ...it's just a jab in the arm Until it isn't. Then what are you going to do? Probably nothing except suffer debilitation for life or death (~20,000 that have been reported to VAERS, so probably substantially more). https://brandnewtube.com/watch/full-hearings-ron-johnson-039-s-expert-panel-on-covid-vaccine-injuries_RJogrA87bWROhRG.html?lang=type https://brandnewtube.com/watch/full-hearings-ron-johnson-039... Edit: spllng
- ben_w 5y agoI saw less than half that number — 8099 — on the VAERS site. And this is for a disease which has killed 821,335 Americans after infecting 51 million. So if it’s absolutely perfectly safe and there is a roughly 5% chance of getting infected with Covid while waiting for the vaccine to take effect, it would look like this.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago>> 8099 Not sure where you get that number. Also, the numbers for VAERS entry are very probably not even in the ballpark of all injuries because doctors don't often advertise VAERS or even enter patient data there. Why would they, it's basically extra work they don't get paid for. https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/12/11/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-12-03-2021/ https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/12/11/vaers-summary-for-covi... >> ...killed 821,33 Americans... I had a family friend that shot himself in a hunting accident. Drove himself to the hospital bleeding, didn't make it 24 hours. Tested positive for Covid. Labeled covid death. I get that it can be a serious disease for some, but it's rare unless you're already in poor health. The response to Covid and vaccine insanity has been ultra overblown.
- ben_w 5y ago> Not sure where you get that number. https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html Like I said, the VAERS site. > The response to Covid and vaccine insanity has been ultra overblown. Last year the UK ran short of mortuaries and body bags. On several occasions, hospitals have been unable to meet demand in various different ways, from beds (meaning staff for them rather than literally beds), to oxygen. > I had a family friend that shot himself in a hunting accident. Drove himself to the hospital bleeding, didn't make it 24 hours. Tested positive for Covid. Labeled covid death. My condolences. But it works both ways: If he’d had a recent vaccine instead of a covid infection, that would be listed on VAERS as correlated to the vaccine, from what I gather.
- xnyan 5y ago>We were promised this wouldn't happen by our governments last year right? We were promised that a company can't require a vaccine as a condition of employment? Seeing as some companies have required vaccines for as long as there have been vaccines, I think I must be misunderstanding you. >Why are private companies stuck policing these absurd policies? Companies are requiring the vaccine because they make employees less likely to miss work due to illness.
- nsxwolf 5y agoWith the exception of healthcare I don't think a lot of companies have mandated vaccines. My wife works in healthcare and there was a tuberculosis shot mandate for specific jobs at her hospital. There was a flu shot mandate of sorts, but it was tied to a small bonus. You can't point to a small sector that has mandates and say it wouldn't be a significant change if suddenly 100% of all workers everywhere were subjected to it.
- comrh 5y agoAny business doing work with the US government will have to mandate vaccines.
- bravetraveler 5y agoMy employer already went this route, something about a fed mandate for their contractors... and we have a lot of those. They extended it to everyone lol
- xnyan 5y agoMillions of people in various sectors outside healthcare (by the way, since when is healthcare a "small sector"?) have had vaccines required as a condition of employment. , mostly people with plenty of risk like teachers, the military and some people working in the travel industry, but this is not always the case. I was required to get the flu shot (or an exemption) in my last job at an electrical engineering firm. On a broader note, I think (coming from the US) workers should have stronger protections against being fired, but everyone I've personally talked to who does not believe your employer should be able to fire you for not getting a vaccine is also opposed to "state controlled employment" or almost anything else that exerts control over the employer-employee relationship. You can be fired for almost any reason in the US, being fired for not getting a vaccine does not seem any worse to me than being fired for any number of awful yet totally legal reasons.