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This is what panic looks like. Given the virus is by most recent evidence assumed to be airborne (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-98-minutes-co

This is what panic looks like. Given the virus is by most recent evidence assumed to be airborne (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-98-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-december-2021/sage-98-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-december-2021 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-98-minutes-c...) it wouldn’t take much at this stage to cause the system to flood with cases. If you’ve been vaccinated are you going to be fine? Probably. If you haven’t? Shrug. We’ll find out in the next couple of weeks I guess. The government knows that they now need another round of lockdowns but don’t have enough support among the public to do it, hence the desperate push for this as the next best thing. The queues to get jabs in my neck of the woods have been massive, so maybe that’s a good sign. Not that it was fun standing in a big queue with that many strangers for hours. I’d prefer to have an actual Omicron vaccine but hopefully winging it with this one works.

an9n 5y ago
Interesting to ponder what would have happened without the full-spectrum WE'RE ALL DOOMED! DOOMED I TELL YA! propaganda push. The first 'pandemic' in history that we have to be reminded all the time exists, else it would disappear.
- JulianMorrison 5y ago
  It wouldn't disappear, it would just appear out of the blue and kill you. Proper reaction to a disease requires evasive action before it infects you.
  - nradov 5y ago
    In the long run you won't evade infection. All of us should expect to eventually get infected. Fortunately this disease has a <1% fatality rate. Vaccination and other treatments cut the risk even further. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
  - joshuahughes 5y ago
    "it would just appear out of the blue and kill you" I've had it and it didn't kill me. It also hasn't killed my wife, my kids, and the ~20 friends I know who have had it. If you want data rather than anecdotes... the current covid mortality rate (worldwide) is tiny. Being killed by covid is NOT a typical outcome for the vast majority of those who get infected, and employing hyperbole like this is just ensuring that the world's overreaction continues. Let's make sure the language we use is proportionate.
JulianMorrison 5y ago
2 jabs is iffy, 2 + booster seems like "probably fine". Hence the panic.
- gladinovax 5y ago
  Get your boosters
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  2 jabs is fine, its just you're about 20% more likely to get symptoms (assuming you are 18-50 and of good health). The issue is you're still going to have a week of feeling like shite. but you're much less likley to need hospital care 3 jabs gives you an 80-95% chance of not exhibiting symptoms. This is what most people expect of a vaccine. (frankly its what I had hoped that two jabs would provide. But I am naive )
  - WillPostForFood 5y ago
    There are many additional variables though. How much time since your last shot, which vaccine, how long between jabs, which variant of the virus you are exposed to, the state your immune system is in. If you’ve had two jabs, spaced 3 weeks apart, last jab was 6 months ago, and you get exposed to omicron, it is a much worse scenario than “20% more likely to get symptoms”. So there is a rational push for boosters right now.
    - KaiserPro 5y ago
      > So there is a rational push for boosters right now. I very very much agree. But what I am saying but failing to get across in a sensible way is this: A double jab will protect you from serious illness. so there really shouldn't be the narrative that double jabbed people have little to no protection. > last jab was 6 months ago, and you get exposed to omicron, it is a much worse scenario I do disagree slightly with this. Yes, old people (75+) who've had almost a year since the last jab will be more vulnerable. Boosters are very much needed to keep them out of hospital (just like the flu jab). But for the vast majority of the population, I am reasonably confident that 2 jabs will be enough to stop you having a really bad time. Sure you'll get symptoms, but it shouldn't be serious. However I must stress that I have had the booster, and I would have rolled them out in july/august when they were approved for use. I would have not sat on the fence and waited, like the JVCI did. In summary, I think we broadly agree, but down to my miss communication I have implied that boosters are not needed.
Proven 5y ago
LOL. What panic?
bArray 5y ago
> This is what panic looks like. Imagine the Facebook posts when people start dropping after a vaccine shot, because the government suspended the wait times. They need vaccinations to look as safe as possible - this will not end well. > [..] it wouldn’t take much at this stage to cause the system to flood with cases. I'm not entirely sure Omicron is a bad thing. It's over-mutated to the point where it's not nearly as deadly as Delta and out-competes Delta. The virology researchers even predicted that Delta was essentially as bad as it was going to get (hence the effort for a Delta specific booster). > The government knows that they now need another round of lockdowns but don’t have enough support among the public to do it, hence the desperate push for this as the next best thing. Not much of a surprise when you're out partying whilst the laws you helped pass are convicting others. > The queues to get jabs in my neck of the woods have been massive, so maybe that’s a good sign. As long as the majority of people who intend to get one can get one, I think that's a success. I don't want to see the stick being used in the UK, only the carrot. > I’d prefer to have an actual Omicron vaccine but hopefully winging it with this one works. Speaking to people on the inside, they were still desperately trying to get a delta specific version out the door in time for boosters - and the Delta variant has been around for quite a while. Don't hold your breath at all on Omicron. Unless there is magically some low hanging fruit (all signs say there is not), then at best you're talking about something for mid next year.
- DanBC 5y ago
  > I'm not entirely sure Omicron is a bad thing. It's over-mutated to the point where it's not nearly as deadly as Delta This is untrue, and is based on misinterpretations of the South Africa data. There are lots of reasons why it looks less lethal in SA, but omicron in other countries is looking about as lethal as delta, with increased transmission. Vaccination and boosters look to be protective against serious harm. In England the vast majority of people in ICUs at the moment are unvaccinated. https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1471169712851673097?s=20 https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1471169712851673097?s... "Prof Chris Whitty suggests idea that South African data shows omicron is milder is wrong. "There's a danger that people have over-interpreted this, think it's not going to be a problem... I want to be clear, this is going to be a problem."" There's also no evidence that Omicron is replacing Delta. https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid-two-epidemics-omicron-cases-uk-doubling-delta-strain-chris-whitty-warning-1354102 https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid-two-epidemics-omicro... > Early indications that the Omicron variant may be less mild will not stop a dangerous wave which could risk overwhelming hospitals, the chief medical officer has warned. > Britain is now experiencing two separate Covid-19 epidemics with rates of the Delta variant high but stable while Omicron grows rapidly, according to Chris Whitty.

an9n 5y ago

Interesting to ponder what would have happened without the full-spectrum WE'RE ALL DOOMED! DOOMED I TELL YA! propaganda push. The first 'pandemic' in history that we have to be reminded all the time exists, else it would disappear.

JulianMorrison 5y ago
It wouldn't disappear, it would just appear out of the blue and kill you. Proper reaction to a disease requires evasive action before it infects you.
- nradov 5y ago
  In the long run you won't evade infection. All of us should expect to eventually get infected. Fortunately this disease has a <1% fatality rate. Vaccination and other treatments cut the risk even further. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
- joshuahughes 5y ago
  "it would just appear out of the blue and kill you" I've had it and it didn't kill me. It also hasn't killed my wife, my kids, and the ~20 friends I know who have had it. If you want data rather than anecdotes... the current covid mortality rate (worldwide) is tiny. Being killed by covid is NOT a typical outcome for the vast majority of those who get infected, and employing hyperbole like this is just ensuring that the world's overreaction continues. Let's make sure the language we use is proportionate.

JulianMorrison 5y ago

2 jabs is iffy, 2 + booster seems like "probably fine". Hence the panic.

gladinovax 5y ago
Get your boosters
KaiserPro 5y ago
2 jabs is fine, its just you're about 20% more likely to get symptoms (assuming you are 18-50 and of good health). The issue is you're still going to have a week of feeling like shite. but you're much less likley to need hospital care 3 jabs gives you an 80-95% chance of not exhibiting symptoms. This is what most people expect of a vaccine. (frankly its what I had hoped that two jabs would provide. But I am naive )
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  There are many additional variables though. How much time since your last shot, which vaccine, how long between jabs, which variant of the virus you are exposed to, the state your immune system is in. If you’ve had two jabs, spaced 3 weeks apart, last jab was 6 months ago, and you get exposed to omicron, it is a much worse scenario than “20% more likely to get symptoms”. So there is a rational push for boosters right now.
  - KaiserPro 5y ago
    > So there is a rational push for boosters right now. I very very much agree. But what I am saying but failing to get across in a sensible way is this: A double jab will protect you from serious illness. so there really shouldn't be the narrative that double jabbed people have little to no protection. > last jab was 6 months ago, and you get exposed to omicron, it is a much worse scenario I do disagree slightly with this. Yes, old people (75+) who've had almost a year since the last jab will be more vulnerable. Boosters are very much needed to keep them out of hospital (just like the flu jab). But for the vast majority of the population, I am reasonably confident that 2 jabs will be enough to stop you having a really bad time. Sure you'll get symptoms, but it shouldn't be serious. However I must stress that I have had the booster, and I would have rolled them out in july/august when they were approved for use. I would have not sat on the fence and waited, like the JVCI did. In summary, I think we broadly agree, but down to my miss communication I have implied that boosters are not needed.

Proven 5y ago

LOL. What panic?

bArray 5y ago

> This is what panic looks like. Imagine the Facebook posts when people start dropping after a vaccine shot, because the government suspended the wait times. They need vaccinations to look as safe as possible - this will not end well. > [..] it wouldn’t take much at this stage to cause the system to flood with cases. I'm not entirely sure Omicron is a bad thing. It's over-mutated to the point where it's not nearly as deadly as Delta and out-competes Delta. The virology researchers even predicted that Delta was essentially as bad as it was going to get (hence the effort for a Delta specific booster). > The government knows that they now need another round of lockdowns but don’t have enough support among the public to do it, hence the desperate push for this as the next best thing. Not much of a surprise when you're out partying whilst the laws you helped pass are convicting others. > The queues to get jabs in my neck of the woods have been massive, so maybe that’s a good sign. As long as the majority of people who intend to get one can get one, I think that's a success. I don't want to see the stick being used in the UK, only the carrot. > I’d prefer to have an actual Omicron vaccine but hopefully winging it with this one works. Speaking to people on the inside, they were still desperately trying to get a delta specific version out the door in time for boosters - and the Delta variant has been around for quite a while. Don't hold your breath at all on Omicron. Unless there is magically some low hanging fruit (all signs say there is not), then at best you're talking about something for mid next year.

DanBC 5y ago
> I'm not entirely sure Omicron is a bad thing. It's over-mutated to the point where it's not nearly as deadly as Delta This is untrue, and is based on misinterpretations of the South Africa data. There are lots of reasons why it looks less lethal in SA, but omicron in other countries is looking about as lethal as delta, with increased transmission. Vaccination and boosters look to be protective against serious harm. In England the vast majority of people in ICUs at the moment are unvaccinated. https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1471169712851673097?s=20 https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1471169712851673097?s... "Prof Chris Whitty suggests idea that South African data shows omicron is milder is wrong. "There's a danger that people have over-interpreted this, think it's not going to be a problem... I want to be clear, this is going to be a problem."" There's also no evidence that Omicron is replacing Delta. https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid-two-epidemics-omicron-cases-uk-doubling-delta-strain-chris-whitty-warning-1354102 https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid-two-epidemics-omicro... > Early indications that the Omicron variant may be less mild will not stop a dangerous wave which could risk overwhelming hospitals, the chief medical officer has warned. > Britain is now experiencing two separate Covid-19 epidemics with rates of the Delta variant high but stable while Omicron grows rapidly, according to Chris Whitty.