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The most people have misunderstood how this system actually worked. I read every paper carefully, and this was very innovative system to protect your privacy IF

by nicce 5y ago

The most people have misunderstood how this system actually worked. I read every paper carefully, and this was very innovative system to protect your privacy IF we compare to existing CSAM solutions. Of course the best option is to not scan at all, but that is not really option. Only those pictures which were about to be uploaded iCloud, would have been scanned, and Apple would get information about image contents only if it is flagged. The phone is blackbox and it scans your files anyway all the time, sending metadata to Apple e.g. because of the spotlight feature and photo albums, or simply syncing your data to cloud. There is massive AI behind that spotlight feature. Nothing would have changed, just the different kind of information would have been flagged, but this time encrypted. The major improvement was E2EE like system for Photos. Currently they are not E2E encrypted in Cloud. They are plaintext for Apple. iOS 15 beta had also encryption for backups, but it never reached public reach after CSAM was delayed. So we lost yet another feature which would have increased the privacy. "But it happens in my device", is not really valid argument since most people don't understand what happens in their devices in the first hand. Even AV engines sends all your data to cloud, and you can't opt out in most of the cases and it is for every file.

hulitu 5y ago
So you are saying that Apple has access to all your data ( = no privacy ) but this "app" will improve your privacy by scanning all your files.
- nicce 5y ago
  It is not scanning all of your files, only those which will be send to iCloud. Scanning for part of pipeline in sync process, so it even can’t scan other files. But yes, currently Apple can access all your images on the cloud, but with this change they would have been E2E encrypted, hence improving privacy.
  - Copernicron 5y ago
    > But yes, currently Apple can access all your images on the cloud, but with this change they would have been E2E encrypted, hence improving privacy. Apple said nothing at all this would be the case. It's pure speculation from people on the internet.
    - nicce 5y ago
      It was all over the spec, whole protocol was about encryption and ”Apple can’t access your images”. Otherwise whole flagging thing was pointless.
tjpnz 5y ago
An innovative solution to the wrong problem. What exactly does one achieve in nailing the local pedo for old content? If he's stupid enough to be uploading it to iCloud he's stupid enough to get himself busted in all manner of other ways. The real problem is of course criminals who are currently engaged in the production of CSAM. Which Apple's scheme does nothing to address.
- nicce 5y ago
  It is essential to stop sharing those files no matter what. It might not help on getting them caugh, but those who buy these pictures or find elsewhere, might try to share them as well. They might not be tech guys, so they might try to use some familiar service. And yes, there are many people like that. iCloud would be flooded if no action is taken against sharing.
Copernicron 5y ago
> I read every paper carefully, and this was very innovative system to protect your privacy IF we compare to existing CSAM solutions I did the same and I agree with you with one small caveat. For someone like me, who does not use iCloud or any other cloud service, on device scanning seriously compromises my privacy. I want to be clear that I am not doing anything that is currently illegal in my home country, but that could change under a more oppressive government. I know my opinions would definitely get me in trouble in some countries if I happened to live there. > Of course the best option is to not scan at all, but that is not really option. Why isn't it an option? I know of no legal requirement anywhere that mandates Apple has to scan fro CSAM.
- nicce 5y ago
  > I did the same and I agree with you with one small caveat. For someone like me, who does not use iCloud or any other cloud service, on device scanning seriously compromises my privacy. I want to be clear that I am not doing anything that is currently illegal in my home country, but that could change under a more oppressive government. I know my opinions would definitely get me in trouble in some countries if I happened to live there. At least in the current solution scanning was integrated part of the iCloud sync pipeline, and therefore this would not have affected you. > Why isn't it an option? I know of no legal requirement anywhere that mandates Apple has to scan fro CSAM. Apple is too big and they try to foresee politicians behavior. With "good will" solutions they can adjust the way how they scan or implement this. With regulation it would be more specific and might even restrict encryption in some cases totally. This is quite difficult topic at Apple's scale and I don't know if anybody really knows what exactly is already required and why

by nicce 5y ago

hulitu 5y ago

So you are saying that Apple has access to all your data ( = no privacy ) but this "app" will improve your privacy by scanning all your files.

nicce 5y ago
It is not scanning all of your files, only those which will be send to iCloud. Scanning for part of pipeline in sync process, so it even can’t scan other files. But yes, currently Apple can access all your images on the cloud, but with this change they would have been E2E encrypted, hence improving privacy.
- Copernicron 5y ago
  > But yes, currently Apple can access all your images on the cloud, but with this change they would have been E2E encrypted, hence improving privacy. Apple said nothing at all this would be the case. It's pure speculation from people on the internet.
  - nicce 5y ago
    It was all over the spec, whole protocol was about encryption and ”Apple can’t access your images”. Otherwise whole flagging thing was pointless.

tjpnz 5y ago

An innovative solution to the wrong problem. What exactly does one achieve in nailing the local pedo for old content? If he's stupid enough to be uploading it to iCloud he's stupid enough to get himself busted in all manner of other ways. The real problem is of course criminals who are currently engaged in the production of CSAM. Which Apple's scheme does nothing to address.

nicce 5y ago
It is essential to stop sharing those files no matter what. It might not help on getting them caugh, but those who buy these pictures or find elsewhere, might try to share them as well. They might not be tech guys, so they might try to use some familiar service. And yes, there are many people like that. iCloud would be flooded if no action is taken against sharing.

Copernicron 5y ago

> I read every paper carefully, and this was very innovative system to protect your privacy IF we compare to existing CSAM solutions I did the same and I agree with you with one small caveat. For someone like me, who does not use iCloud or any other cloud service, on device scanning seriously compromises my privacy. I want to be clear that I am not doing anything that is currently illegal in my home country, but that could change under a more oppressive government. I know my opinions would definitely get me in trouble in some countries if I happened to live there. > Of course the best option is to not scan at all, but that is not really option. Why isn't it an option? I know of no legal requirement anywhere that mandates Apple has to scan fro CSAM.

nicce 5y ago
> I did the same and I agree with you with one small caveat. For someone like me, who does not use iCloud or any other cloud service, on device scanning seriously compromises my privacy. I want to be clear that I am not doing anything that is currently illegal in my home country, but that could change under a more oppressive government. I know my opinions would definitely get me in trouble in some countries if I happened to live there. At least in the current solution scanning was integrated part of the iCloud sync pipeline, and therefore this would not have affected you. > Why isn't it an option? I know of no legal requirement anywhere that mandates Apple has to scan fro CSAM. Apple is too big and they try to foresee politicians behavior. With "good will" solutions they can adjust the way how they scan or implement this. With regulation it would be more specific and might even restrict encryption in some cases totally. This is quite difficult topic at Apple's scale and I don't know if anybody really knows what exactly is already required and why