4 ms·

Worth noting that people misunderstand baseline (baseload) requirements too. Solar+batteries and some pump storage and wind are very nearly statistically able t

by nl 5y ago

Worth noting that people misunderstand baseline (baseload) requirements too. Solar+batteries and some pump storage and wind are very nearly statistically able to meet baseload in most places. Small gas plants might be needed to fill the gap for a period of time but there's no gap for large scale non renewable power sources (coal, oil, nuclear or large gas) that's big enough to make economic sense.

sofixa 5y ago
> Solar+batteries and some pump storage and wind are very nearly statistically able to meet baseload in most places Most places? As I've mentioned a few times here, there's an ongoing meteorological phenomenon across Europe with bad weather ( clouds and stuff), low wind speeds and cold temperatures. It started around September and is projected to continue well into the winter. Electricity produced by wind is at historical lows, and of course solar is of limited help as well. It's among the contributing factors for the high gas prices. You'd need a whole lot of batteries and pumped up hydro ( which can't just be put anywhere) to cover for such events.
- jimmydorry 5y ago
  Not to mention a daily phenomena where demand increases while sunlight decreases, the impact increases or decreases by time of year.
- vardump 5y ago
  Why can't we just have cross-continent UHVDC cables to counteract that issue?
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Because shit happens and there's resistance ( electrical). There are cables between the UK and France, and UK and Norway, and there was a fire at one of the UK-France cables, rendering it inoperable for months. And depending on faraway places for energy is dangerous, as for instance Germany is discovering now with Russia. Do you imagine Europe depending on Algeria and Morocco solar, for instance, and France pissing them off with some (neo/ex-)colonial matters ( like for instance, France recently lowered quotas for Algerian citizens entering the country, and Algeria was (rightfully) pissed), and them cutting the cables.
    - vardump 5y ago
      > ... and there's resistance ( electrical). Aren't the UHVDC losses just 1,5% per 1000 km? 16% for 10000 km, though, but that might still be economical in some cases. Sure, shit does happen. Like with everything. Perhaps it could be mitigated with an insurance or multipath? Political risk is another matter, of course. But we do have gas pipelines crossing such boundaries as well, so surely it's doable?
      - matkoniecz 5y ago
        Europe has repeated political issues with Russian gas pipelines used by Russia as a political threat.
rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
It doesn't seem accurate to describe nuclear as a non renewable energy source.
- cma 5y ago
  It uses a consumable.
  - rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
    It does, but that consumable releases no CO2 or other greenhouse gas into the atmosphere. That seems to be the clear and present danger that "renewables" are trying to limit. Nuclear accomplishes this, and has the possibility that we could use it to sequester carbon if enough capacity was built. Would one call geothermal power non-renewable because the radioactive decay in the earth that heats the interior isn't replaceable by a human? How about all of the hydrogen atoms that irreversibly fuse into helium in the sun, not to mention the materials to make the solar panels and wind turbines to harness that power?
    - cma 5y ago
      Green/renewable/sustainable aren't complete synonyms. As a shorthand people consider huge natural sources like the Sun that is already outputting whether we tap into it or not (same with geothermal) differently than more limited ones like oil or uranium deposits. We'll probably change the language if we ever get into megastructure or solar-system scale engineering that blurs that distinction.
koheripbal 5y ago
You are neglecting winter. Winter solar and wind production is terrible.
- mrep 5y ago
  Only for the west coast. For the rest of the country, wind actually peaks in the winter: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=20112 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=20112

by nl 5y ago

sofixa 5y ago

> Solar+batteries and some pump storage and wind are very nearly statistically able to meet baseload in most places Most places? As I've mentioned a few times here, there's an ongoing meteorological phenomenon across Europe with bad weather ( clouds and stuff), low wind speeds and cold temperatures. It started around September and is projected to continue well into the winter. Electricity produced by wind is at historical lows, and of course solar is of limited help as well. It's among the contributing factors for the high gas prices. You'd need a whole lot of batteries and pumped up hydro ( which can't just be put anywhere) to cover for such events.

jimmydorry 5y ago
Not to mention a daily phenomena where demand increases while sunlight decreases, the impact increases or decreases by time of year.
vardump 5y ago
Why can't we just have cross-continent UHVDC cables to counteract that issue?
- sofixa 5y ago
  Because shit happens and there's resistance ( electrical). There are cables between the UK and France, and UK and Norway, and there was a fire at one of the UK-France cables, rendering it inoperable for months. And depending on faraway places for energy is dangerous, as for instance Germany is discovering now with Russia. Do you imagine Europe depending on Algeria and Morocco solar, for instance, and France pissing them off with some (neo/ex-)colonial matters ( like for instance, France recently lowered quotas for Algerian citizens entering the country, and Algeria was (rightfully) pissed), and them cutting the cables.
  - vardump 5y ago
    > ... and there's resistance ( electrical). Aren't the UHVDC losses just 1,5% per 1000 km? 16% for 10000 km, though, but that might still be economical in some cases. Sure, shit does happen. Like with everything. Perhaps it could be mitigated with an insurance or multipath? Political risk is another matter, of course. But we do have gas pipelines crossing such boundaries as well, so surely it's doable?
    - matkoniecz 5y ago
      Europe has repeated political issues with Russian gas pipelines used by Russia as a political threat.

rainbowzootsuit 5y ago

It doesn't seem accurate to describe nuclear as a non renewable energy source.

cma 5y ago
It uses a consumable.
- rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
  It does, but that consumable releases no CO2 or other greenhouse gas into the atmosphere. That seems to be the clear and present danger that "renewables" are trying to limit. Nuclear accomplishes this, and has the possibility that we could use it to sequester carbon if enough capacity was built. Would one call geothermal power non-renewable because the radioactive decay in the earth that heats the interior isn't replaceable by a human? How about all of the hydrogen atoms that irreversibly fuse into helium in the sun, not to mention the materials to make the solar panels and wind turbines to harness that power?
  - cma 5y ago
    Green/renewable/sustainable aren't complete synonyms. As a shorthand people consider huge natural sources like the Sun that is already outputting whether we tap into it or not (same with geothermal) differently than more limited ones like oil or uranium deposits. We'll probably change the language if we ever get into megastructure or solar-system scale engineering that blurs that distinction.

koheripbal 5y ago

You are neglecting winter. Winter solar and wind production is terrible.

mrep 5y ago
Only for the west coast. For the rest of the country, wind actually peaks in the winter: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=20112 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=20112