4 ms·

Why is this common in SF but not European cities, where outdoor dining and beer gardens are even more common than SF? (In other words, there’s more opportunity

Why is this common in SF but not European cities, where outdoor dining and beer gardens are even more common than SF? (In other words, there’s more opportunity but yet it’s still not common).

spinach 5y ago
Perhaps because European countries have universal healthcare.
- foobarian 5y ago
  You need more than that, you need legal basis and resources to be able to load up the crazy homeless person into a van and get them committed out of sight to an institution.
  - alisonkisk 5y ago
    Or you need an economic environment that doesn't drive people to become "crazy" and homeless.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    Homelessness isn't in itself a mental condition, although it can lead to or be caused by it. Public healthcare can help people who are homeless maintain their sanity and health, which can get them back on their feet. It may even stop them from becoming homeless in the first place. It also gives both the individual, care services, and authorities all a point of contact to try and make sure they're being taken care of.
  - adam-a 5y ago
    European countries aren't dealing with these people by stuffing them in asylums; they have public housing programs, free healthcare, community support programs, health-workers and social-workers doing at-home visits, day-centres, and lots of other schemes to help.
- dagw 5y ago
  I lived several years in down town Oslo, and it had both universal healthcare and lots of visible homelessness. (although it seems to have gotten slightly better over the past 5-6 years)
pydry 5y ago
It's a function of rents / income. High rents -> Homelessness -> Debilitating mental illness -> drug use -> even worse mental illness. Nowhere has rents quite as absurd as SF but what you describe has happened to me in London. Reducing homelessness and ever rising property values are not compatible goals.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- unsigner 5y ago
  Munich has outrageous rents and brutal housing scarcity, yet no visible homelessness.
  - pydry 5y ago
    https://www.goethe.de/ins/us/en/m/kul/wir/woh/21391992.html https://www.goethe.de/ins/us/en/m/kul/wir/woh/21391992.html It hasnt been going on as long and isnt nearly as bad in Munich as it is in SF but the same problem is there.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > no visible homelessness A key word is visible. Some places solve the problem by hiding the homeless, chasing them to poor neighborhoods or into shelters, etc. (It's the same solution suburbs and small towns use, in a way: Bus them to the city. Then they criticize cities for the homeless problem.)
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Are you seriously saying that high rent leads to mental illness, or do I misunderstand?
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    Perhaps that homelessness and lack of a mental health support structure exacerbate existing mental illness that might otherwise be manageable.
perceptronas 5y ago
In my opinion its due lack of enforcement. In bigger cities (EU) where there is not enough police or security guards - homelessness negatively impacts everyone around too
- banannaise 5y ago
  Yes, the country that spends more money on police and incarcerates more people than anywhere else is having this problem worse than other countries because they don't have enough police and aren't incarcerating enough people. What?
  - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 5y ago
    You can't apply a blanket statement like that to a country of 330M people and half a dozen time zones. The US is not a homogeneous blob of identical humans, customs, cultures, and governance priorities. Even among "coastal elite" cities the difference in policing (and attitudes towards policing) you see between places like SF and Manhattan is stark to say the least.
  - perceptronas 5y ago
    I am not talking about incarceration, just simple policing. Not letting homeless build tents or sleep at entrances of business or buildings is a good start. Making sure people feel safe should be no. 1 priority of any government.
krageon 5y ago
Because the US has real drug problems and absolutely no interest in providing a humane solution to them.

Why is this common in SF but not European cities, where outdoor dining and beer gardens are even more common than SF? (In other words, there’s more opportunity but yet it’s still not common).

spinach 5y ago

Perhaps because European countries have universal healthcare.

foobarian 5y ago
You need more than that, you need legal basis and resources to be able to load up the crazy homeless person into a van and get them committed out of sight to an institution.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  Or you need an economic environment that doesn't drive people to become "crazy" and homeless.
- ehnto 5y ago
  Homelessness isn't in itself a mental condition, although it can lead to or be caused by it. Public healthcare can help people who are homeless maintain their sanity and health, which can get them back on their feet. It may even stop them from becoming homeless in the first place. It also gives both the individual, care services, and authorities all a point of contact to try and make sure they're being taken care of.
- adam-a 5y ago
  European countries aren't dealing with these people by stuffing them in asylums; they have public housing programs, free healthcare, community support programs, health-workers and social-workers doing at-home visits, day-centres, and lots of other schemes to help.
dagw 5y ago
I lived several years in down town Oslo, and it had both universal healthcare and lots of visible homelessness. (although it seems to have gotten slightly better over the past 5-6 years)

pydry 5y ago

It's a function of rents / income. High rents -> Homelessness -> Debilitating mental illness -> drug use -> even worse mental illness. Nowhere has rents quite as absurd as SF but what you describe has happened to me in London. Reducing homelessness and ever rising property values are not compatible goals.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
unsigner 5y ago
Munich has outrageous rents and brutal housing scarcity, yet no visible homelessness.
- pydry 5y ago
  https://www.goethe.de/ins/us/en/m/kul/wir/woh/21391992.html https://www.goethe.de/ins/us/en/m/kul/wir/woh/21391992.html It hasnt been going on as long and isnt nearly as bad in Munich as it is in SF but the same problem is there.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > no visible homelessness A key word is visible. Some places solve the problem by hiding the homeless, chasing them to poor neighborhoods or into shelters, etc. (It's the same solution suburbs and small towns use, in a way: Bus them to the city. Then they criticize cities for the homeless problem.)
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
Are you seriously saying that high rent leads to mental illness, or do I misunderstand?
- nkrisc 5y ago
  Perhaps that homelessness and lack of a mental health support structure exacerbate existing mental illness that might otherwise be manageable.

perceptronas 5y ago

In my opinion its due lack of enforcement. In bigger cities (EU) where there is not enough police or security guards - homelessness negatively impacts everyone around too

banannaise 5y ago
Yes, the country that spends more money on police and incarcerates more people than anywhere else is having this problem worse than other countries because they don't have enough police and aren't incarcerating enough people. What?
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 5y ago
  You can't apply a blanket statement like that to a country of 330M people and half a dozen time zones. The US is not a homogeneous blob of identical humans, customs, cultures, and governance priorities. Even among "coastal elite" cities the difference in policing (and attitudes towards policing) you see between places like SF and Manhattan is stark to say the least.
- perceptronas 5y ago
  I am not talking about incarceration, just simple policing. Not letting homeless build tents or sleep at entrances of business or buildings is a good start. Making sure people feel safe should be no. 1 priority of any government.

krageon 5y ago

Because the US has real drug problems and absolutely no interest in providing a humane solution to them.