5 ms·

I thought the movie implied this as well? I include Arrival alongside Children of Men as an example of a case where the movie is better than the book (and I'm

I thought the movie implied this as well? I include Arrival alongside Children of Men as an example of a case where the movie is better than the book (and I'm a big Ted Chiang fan) - changing the daughter's death from a climbing accident to a disease was much better imo.

penteract 5y ago
In the book, it's impossible to act on information from the future, whereas in the film that clearly happens in the phone call near the end. This means that if the daughter had died in a climbing accident in the film, the mother would have to have chosen to let that happen/not warn her, whereas to avoid the disease, the only option would have been not to have the child. In the book, that wasn't an option; learning the language changed her subjective experience of time, but did not give a superpower.
- rpaddock 5y ago
  "...impossible to act on information from the future..." Might want to read: Feeling the Future: Experimental Evidence for Anomalous Retroactive Influences on Cognition and Affect Daryl J. Bem Cornell University https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/features/psp-a0021524.pdf https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/features/psp-a0021524.pdf This work has been replicated many times by others because no one believed it. Also look up Decision Augmentation Theory.
  - joegreen 5y ago
    That paper was an interesting read :) I googled a bit about it and found possible explanation https://replicationindex.com/2018/01/05/bem-retraction/ https://replicationindex.com/2018/01/05/bem-retraction/
    - rpaddock 5y ago
      There is also: "Feeling the future: A meta-analysis of 90 experiments on the anomalous anticipation of random future events" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/ The book 'Real Magic' is related: https://www.deanradin.com https://www.deanradin.com
edanm 5y ago
Funny how taste works - I feel the opposite. In the case of a disease, there's really nothing she can do, and iirc the film implies the hard choice here was to decide to have a child even knowing that will die. In the car of an accident, there is the feeling that she could literally have prevented her daughter's death by preventing the accident, but "chooses" not to. The free will implications of that are much more interesting imo. (To be clear, it's one of my favorite stories and also one of my favorite movies.)
- david-gpu 5y ago
  > the hard choice here was to decide to have a child even knowing that [they] will die Knowing that my children will suffer and die is the main reason why I didn't want to have any. Now I have two. Funnily, it's the same reason my own mother didn't want to have kids either. Yet, here we are. I suspect it is a pretty common feeling.
  - anktor 5y ago
    I logged in just to tell you thank you for sharing, sometimes the right comment at the right time means a lot, and this is my case now it appears, so thank you.
  - Sitio 5y ago
    I still think it's the right decision not to have kids. I myself would prefer not to been born (while my life is relatively easy) In dune there is a story part were the ruler knows what he needs to do but also realizes that he is not strong enough and knows that his son has to fullfil it (I forgot what it is about) but I feel as soon as we achieve the ability to self determine things like if we want to make kids, we should stop doing it as we might not have the right to create new life. Don't get me wrong, this is not black and white thinking: have kids if you want. Evolutionary everything and everyone is programed to stay alive and procreate. Fighting against it is hard. It's easier to make this life easier, better etc than staying your ground and not making kids. We tried actually and it didn't work out after 3 month. That made it much easier to not try again. But as you see, thinking about it and what you do is not black and white.

penteract 5y ago

In the book, it's impossible to act on information from the future, whereas in the film that clearly happens in the phone call near the end. This means that if the daughter had died in a climbing accident in the film, the mother would have to have chosen to let that happen/not warn her, whereas to avoid the disease, the only option would have been not to have the child. In the book, that wasn't an option; learning the language changed her subjective experience of time, but did not give a superpower.

rpaddock 5y ago
"...impossible to act on information from the future..." Might want to read: Feeling the Future: Experimental Evidence for Anomalous Retroactive Influences on Cognition and Affect Daryl J. Bem Cornell University https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/features/psp-a0021524.pdf https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/features/psp-a0021524.pdf This work has been replicated many times by others because no one believed it. Also look up Decision Augmentation Theory.
- joegreen 5y ago
  That paper was an interesting read :) I googled a bit about it and found possible explanation https://replicationindex.com/2018/01/05/bem-retraction/ https://replicationindex.com/2018/01/05/bem-retraction/
  - rpaddock 5y ago
    There is also: "Feeling the future: A meta-analysis of 90 experiments on the anomalous anticipation of random future events" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/ The book 'Real Magic' is related: https://www.deanradin.com https://www.deanradin.com

edanm 5y ago

Funny how taste works - I feel the opposite. In the case of a disease, there's really nothing she can do, and iirc the film implies the hard choice here was to decide to have a child even knowing that will die. In the car of an accident, there is the feeling that she could literally have prevented her daughter's death by preventing the accident, but "chooses" not to. The free will implications of that are much more interesting imo. (To be clear, it's one of my favorite stories and also one of my favorite movies.)

david-gpu 5y ago
> the hard choice here was to decide to have a child even knowing that [they] will die Knowing that my children will suffer and die is the main reason why I didn't want to have any. Now I have two. Funnily, it's the same reason my own mother didn't want to have kids either. Yet, here we are. I suspect it is a pretty common feeling.
- anktor 5y ago
  I logged in just to tell you thank you for sharing, sometimes the right comment at the right time means a lot, and this is my case now it appears, so thank you.
- Sitio 5y ago
  I still think it's the right decision not to have kids. I myself would prefer not to been born (while my life is relatively easy) In dune there is a story part were the ruler knows what he needs to do but also realizes that he is not strong enough and knows that his son has to fullfil it (I forgot what it is about) but I feel as soon as we achieve the ability to self determine things like if we want to make kids, we should stop doing it as we might not have the right to create new life. Don't get me wrong, this is not black and white thinking: have kids if you want. Evolutionary everything and everyone is programed to stay alive and procreate. Fighting against it is hard. It's easier to make this life easier, better etc than staying your ground and not making kids. We tried actually and it didn't work out after 3 month. That made it much easier to not try again. But as you see, thinking about it and what you do is not black and white.